[C320-list] Mid-ship Cleat

[Warren Updike]

Having had to deal with rebedding stanchions on our #62, working in the
areas where the stanchion nuts are is no picnic. 
Jeff, be sure in advance of your approach that you have or can make adequate
access to the underside. I found that certain of the stanchion studs were in
very narrow location that would not even allow for a backing plate (Catalina
didn't see fit to install one.) I resorted to using heavy, heat-treated
washers instead. Even then, the underside of the deck, in some places, is
thin enough that cranking a nut on with a washer could compress the deck. 
In two locations, it was necessary to cut out an access in the curved
under-hang that hides the wires and thru-bolts to gain working access to the
nuts. 
In one event, a stanchion was so stressed that the thin ss washer (again, no
backing plate,) was deformed and pulled into the core. I was able to get a
plate on this one.
Of course, every hull may be slightly different depending on what work was
done on Monday or Friday.

Warren and Pattie Updike
1994 C320 "Warr de Mar" #62
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Hare [mailto:Catalina at thehares.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 6:09 PM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mid-ship Cleat

Hi All,

Lots of good discussion on the perm vs track mounted mid-ship cleat.

My issue with the track mounted cleat is that we use the Garhauer adjustable
genoa cars all the time and use a lot of the available track.  The ideal
spot for the mid-ship cleat (if there is one on the track) is at a point
where the adjustable genoa car would be obnoxiously in the way when we want
to use the cleat and we'd have to move the car way aft to get it out of the
way when using the cars..

It is also inboard quite a bit and if you get the line on the wrong side of
a given stanchion when trying to cleat off, you risk bending one.

So... The toe-rail mount is a better idea for me, however, I wouldn't want
the cleat attached to the toe-rail itself.

Consider how the mounting plate for the side stanchions are attached.  They
have a SS plate that attaches to the deck and then angles up and over the
top of the toe-rail.  So, here's what I've been thinking about for some
time...

* Fabricate a polished SS plate along the same profile lines as the
stanchion attachment plate but thicker SS and longer (about the length of a
cleat).  

* Have about a 1.5" x 6"? foot that sits flat on the deck close to the
toe-rail (leaving enough room for drainage like the stanchions do).  This
part would get thru-bolted (like the stanchions).

* Then angles up the side of the toe-rail following the curve and extends
horizontally across the top of the toe rail and wraps around down the
outside of the toe-rail an inch or two

* The mid ship cleat would be tapped into this SS plate. 

* I'd consider using a small patch of 4200 or 5200 to adhere the plate to
the top section of the toe rail to provide cushion and adhesion.

This way, there is no drilling into the toe-rail (which would seem fragile
to me, especially with any outward pulling force).  The mounting plate
itself would handle outward fore/aft pull just fine with the wrapped toe
rail providing some additional stability.

With this kind of install, there would only need to be two appropriately
sized machine bolts through the deck per cleat.  I think I could find
someone to fabricate a high quality part like this so that it wouldn't look
out of place.  There would be almost nothing to stub a toe on either.

So, if I get some time to whip up a CAD drawing and find someone to
fabricate these, I'll share with anyone interested.

Thoughts?

-Jeff Hare
#809

-----Original Message-----
From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf
Of jbrown5093 at yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 4:34 PM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mid-ship Cleat

I have seen 320s where different track cleats wouldn't fit on the upper
track that is recessed. Into the cabin top. The problem isn't with the width
of the track but with the length. If just a hair too long you can't get the
cleat to slide on because it wont "fit" in the space between the end of the
track and the beginning of the recess. My shaffers do fit but another brand
(ronstan maybe) won't go on.  On another boat even the shaffers wouldn't
slip on. So if you plan to use them on both tracks try before you buy.

Great tip on stopping the hunting at anchor,  Chris. Can't wait to try it.

Jim Brown

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 26, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Scott Westwood <scottwestwood at bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> 
> FWIW.  I measured my jib track ('98 # 517) a couple of days ago and it was
1-1/4 ". 
> Leaning even more now to track-run cleats.  Still reviewing though.....
Would prefer cleat on gunnel ridge under life line but may not be practical
(worth the effort).
> Thanks,
> Scott Westwood scottwestwood at bellsouth.net H (919)-362-8538    C
(919)-618-7185
> 
>      From: Beverly Wright <bev.wright at verizon.net>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mid-ship Cleat
> 
> I have two track cleats that are different from each other, can't recall
the brands, one came from the other owner and I bought one.  They are a
great choice because they can be removed when racing and cruising (they have
caught the lines on occasion) and moved along the track for spring lines
when rafting to other boats or at marinas. I had not thought about attaching
a 1/4" line to the pin but I'm definitely doing that because it provides
something to hold on to when removing them. I almost had one go overboard as
it was being removed.  I haven't had the issue that Commitment has, but I
will keep that trick in mind if we find that happening at anchor.
> 
> My tracks are 1 1/4" per the diagram in the manual
> 
> Bev Wright
> s/v Whoosh
> Edgewater, MD
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On 
> Behalf Of Chris Burti
> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 2:05 PM
> To: 320
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mid-ship Cleat
> 
> I have both (two Garhauer and one Schaefer) and prefer the Schaefer.
Adding a loop of 1/4" line to the pin made  far more useful. I move it from
side to side, forward and aft on the tracks and up and down  from the Genoa
track to the jib track on the cabin top. This proved farm re effective in
setting spring lines at the multitude of docks we experienced on our cruise.
> 
> In addition, Commitment sails like a drunken bat when at anchor in any
wind over 5 knots. Using a rolling hitch to tie a spring line from the
anchor rode to a mid-ship cleat set well forward moderates that tendency
greatly.
> 
> Chris Burti
> Farmville, NC
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Stephen Cox <scox at timmin.com> wrote:
> 
>>> 
>>> Don't mount one get the Garhauer that fits on the track
>> 
>> Personally  think the Schaefer equivalent is a nicer cleat.  It looks 
>> more in keeping with the other cleats on the boat, has no protrusion 
>> on top to catch lines either.  Defender sell them.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Stephen Cox
>> Tegwen #1141
> 
> 
>