[C320-list] C320-list Digest, Bimini Top

Fri Feb 10 12:38:46 PST 2017

Regarding the Bimini Top.  I had a custom version made up and although more
expensive by $1,000 it was well worth it.  I needed frame and canvas.
Custom Canvas in Noank CT did the work.  They also make a lot of custom
canvas for the Coast Guard.  

Several other quotes were much less and they would have ball parked a lot of
details.  I followed Jeff's recommendation (from a previous 320 list
discussion)n several years ago. Custom Canvas had a senior
technician/fabricator come to the boat on the hard and measurer the stern
geometry in a very detailed manner.   They came back with the tube frame and
then after fitting the frame to my boat they constructed a beautiful cut
pattern.  At that pattern fabrication on the boat I was able to work with
the fitter to fine tune certain proportions and shapes for the cover on the
pattern fabrication until it looked beautiful visually.  Proportions and
shapes make a big difference between something that looks OK and something
that is excellent.  Two weeks after the pattern build they came back with
the canvas and did a trial fit.  It was just like a glove and the frame is
rock solid because they put in extra cross bracing.  It was easy to see why
they were more expensive.  Even the thread they used was $25 a spool
compared to more commonly used threads but it will never die from UV
exposure.  Cheaper thread will begin to break down after several years.  You
should get what you paid for and I did.

Jeffrey Kapec

Petite Suite
Hull 780

Tanaka Kapec Design Group
11 Brookfield St.   Norwalk, CT 06851
203.846.3666

-----Original Message-----
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Of c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 3:02 PM
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: C320-list Digest, Vol 2817, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Bimini Top Sticker Shock (Warren Updike)
   2. Re: Motor mounts (Warren Updike)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:41:54 +0000
From: Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com>
To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bimini Top Sticker Shock
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Jeff is spot-on re custom canvas (as he usually is.) My understanding is
that only on-site patterning and attention to detail will yield a quality
product that will look good and perform. You can mail-order something like a
sail cover; but, the dodger and bimini must be hand-fit on-board and custom
made.

A slip neighbor devised a scheme to support the bimini frame without using
straps that get in the way. There are two rigid vertical supports from the
aft of the frame to the top push-pit rail attached with pins for quick
release. On each side of the frame are fore/aft supports with knee joints,
also pin secured. In 5 minutes, the whole thing is erected or secured for
storage... no straps in the way.

Warren and Pattie Updike
1994 C320 "Warr de Mar" #62
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Hare [mailto:Catalina at thehares.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 10:58 AM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bimini Top Sticker Shock

Bruce,

As a canvas fabricator myself in the Northeast, I can say for certain that
this price is a bargain assuming a decent quality job and materials.  (Not
talking premium b/c I'd expect closer to 2k+ for that).

No 2 bimini tops are the same.  They're never even symmetrical side to side,
and if you pattern half and mirror it, you're top is pretty much guaranteed
to have wrinkles and not have a drum-tight fitting top.

It is really hard to generalize because rarely are 2 jobs the same...but...
Here's an example...

The bimini I'm working on right now is a short bimini (stops just before the
end of the boom for ~5'x12' dimensions) and requires 10 linear yards of
Sunbrella (60" width) for all the individual parts and assembly, if you keep
the fabric warp/welt oriented properly.  If they cheat, you have asymmetry
in material stretch leading to wrinkle lines and poor fit especially over
time.  

A spool of SolarFix/Tenara lifetime thread is close to $100.  You're pretty
close to $500-600 materials when you include everything like
straps/buckles/zippers, etc.  That's before you factor the time into
patterning & install (4hrs), finishing up the pattern development in the
shop 3-4hrs, layout & cutting, 3-5hrs, assembly ~12hrs.  Backstay cutouts
and boots are tricky and easily add a couple hours. Many shops here in the
northeast charge in between $60-80/hr for shop time and expenses.  

Some shops are set up with digital patterning, 3D CAD and computer
layout/cutting and while their time will be allocated differently in the
early phases, they have a lot of overhead and equipment maintenance which
has to be accounted for in the pricing.

If they charge much less than that, they're losing money and probably won't
be in business long.  Maybe this helps understand that the cost isn't just
in the materials.

Cheers!
-Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf
Of Bruce Hunter
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 9:11 AM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com; sail-ability sail-ability
<sail-ability at sympatico.ca>; c320-list <c320-list at catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bimini Top Sticker Shock

Thanks John,                         Before we bought our 320, we were used
to much smaller upkeep bills due to having smaller and older boats, every
once in a while I need to check if I'm not eyes glazed and spending
foolishly.
Bruce. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 

  On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 8:50 AM, sail-ability
sail-ability<sail-ability at sympatico.ca> wrote:     WE just had our dodger
done for almost 3KCAD. This did include lexan
  windows. I think the price of the Sunbrella has gone up considerably.
  anyhow I don't think 1750USD is out of the ballpark, especially if you
  know you're getting a quality job.

  JohnM

  1999#574

    ---------- Original Message ----------
    From: Bruce Hunter <swampcreek42 at yahoo.com>
    Date: February 8, 2017 at 8:20 AM
    Just received quote for bimini replacement, bimini only. Cover to
    fit on existing frame, $1750! It's a top notch shop in Annapolis and
    they did our dodger a few years ago for just above 2K but a bimini
    isn't as intricate, I was expecting a premium estimate but was
    pretty much surprised at the amount of premium this estimate
    conveyed. Again, this is a top notch shop and we love their work but
    I don't want to be foolish in purchasing something way out of the
    ballpark. What have some of you payed?
    Thanks,Bruce HunterPasadena MDNauti Time #719

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:58:18 +0000
From: Warren Updike <wupdike at hotmail.com>
To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Motor mounts
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I'm interested in Perkins motor mounts as well. I had good experience
ordering a Perkins exhaust elbow from www.wellandpower.net. It was
substantially less expensive than domestic US prices. You have to pay in
Euros; but, paying via PayPal made it a breeze. With the Euro now down less
than $1.00, it's an even better deal. 

Michael, please do let us know what you do. After 2,000hrs and 21 years, I
figure it's time.

Warren and Pattie Updike
1994 C320 "Warr de Mar" #62
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay

-----Original Message-----
From: michael ferguson [mailto:coralman at bellsouth.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 11:03 PM
To: C320-List at Catalina320 com
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Motor mounts

Thanks Rollie. 
Couldn't find where anyone used after market brands other than Perkins with
success. 
Michael

On February 8, 2017, at 3:57 PM, argates2nd <argates2nd at comcast.net> wrote:

There is a thread on point on the 320 Assoc website. ?Rollie #182

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Michael Ferguson <coralman at bellsouth.net>
Date: 2/8/17  3:28 PM  (GMT-05:00)
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com, Elizabeth Schwartz
<schwartz781 at optonline.net>, C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Motor mounts 

Hi sorry if this came thru twice. Can anyone offer info on replacement motor
mounts on my 95 Perkins M30. Thanks Michael

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 

? On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Elizabeth
Schwartz<schwartz781 at optonline.net> wrote:?? Ahoy all......BOATS.....Bring
Out Another Thousand S....Joe...#245

On Wed, Feb 08, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Jeff Hare wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> As a canvas fabricator myself in the Northeast, I can say for certain 
> that this price is a bargain assuming a decent quality job and 
> materials.? (Not talking premium b/c I'd expect closer to 2k+ for 
> that).
>
> No 2 bimini tops are the same.? They're never even symmetrical side to 
> side, and if you pattern half and mirror it, you're top is pretty much 
> guaranteed to have wrinkles and not have a drum-tight fitting top.
>
> It is really hard to generalize because rarely are 2 jobs the 
> same...but...? Here's an example...
>
> The bimini I'm working on right now is a short bimini (stops just 
> before the end of the boom for ~5'x12' dimensions) and requires 10 
> linear yards of Sunbrella (60" width) for all the individual parts and 
> assembly, if you keep the fabric warp/welt oriented properly.? If they 
> cheat, you have asymmetry in material stretch leading to wrinkle lines 
> and poor fit especially over time.
> A spool of SolarFix/Tenara lifetime thread is close to $100.? You're 
> pretty close to $500-600 materials when you include everything like 
> straps/buckles/zippers, etc.? That's before you factor the time into 
> patterning & install (4hrs), finishing up the pattern development in 
> the shop 3-4hrs, layout & cutting, 3-5hrs, assembly ~12hrs.? Backstay 
> cutouts and boots are tricky and easily add a couple hours. Many shops 
> here in the northeast charge in between $60-80/hr for shop time and 
> expenses.
> Some shops are set up with digital patterning, 3D CAD and computer 
> layout/cutting and while their time will be allocated differently in 
> the early phases, they have a lot of overhead and equipment 
> maintenance which has to be accounted for in the pricing.
>
> If they charge much less than that, they're losing money and probably 
> won't be in business long.? Maybe this helps understand that the cost 
> isn't just in the materials.
>
> Cheers!
> -Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On 
> Behalf Of Bruce Hunter
> Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 9:11 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com; sail-ability sail-ability ; c320-list
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bimini Top Sticker Shock
>
> Thanks John,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Before we bought our 320, we were  
>used to much smaller upkeep bills due to having smaller and older  
>boats, every once in a while I need to check if I'm not eyes glazed  
>and spending foolishly.
> Bruce.
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android? ? On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 8:50 AM,  
>sail-ability sail-ability wrote:? ? WE just had our dodger done for  
>almost 3KCAD. This did include lexan ? windows. I think the price of 
>the Sunbrella has gone up  considerably.
>? anyhow I don't think 1750USD is out of the ballpark, especially if  
>you ? know you're getting a quality job.
>
>? JohnM
>
>? 1999#574
>
>? ? ---------- Original Message ---------- ? ? From: Bruce Hunter? ? 
>Date: February 8, 2017 at 8:20 AM ? ? Just received quote for bimini 
>replacement, bimini only. Cover to ? ? fit on existing frame, $1750! 
>It's a top notch shop in Annapolis  and ? ? they did our dodger a few 
>years ago for just above 2K but a bimini ? ? isn't as intricate, I was 
>expecting a premium estimate but was ? ? pretty much surprised at the 
>amount of premium this estimate ? ? conveyed. Again, this is a top 
>notch shop and we love their work  but ? ? I don't want to be foolish 
>in purchasing something way out of the ? ? ballpark. What have some of 
>you payed?
>? ? Thanks,Bruce HunterPasadena MDNauti Time #719
>
>
? 

End of C320-list Digest, Vol 2817, Issue 1
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