[C320-list] Mysterious water

[Ken Geiger]

I have had problems with the inspection ports leaking as well upon completely filling the tank and input hose.  I put Vaseline on the threads and O-ring and that usually allows a tighter closure and usually stops the leak.

Ken
Northern Dream #765

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Meyers <jcmeyers7 at gmail.com>
To: C320-List <C320-List at catalina320.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 19, 2018 8:19 am
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Mysterious water

Diane,

I am interested in this situation too.

Two observations from my experience.

Sometimes, but not always, I have found water in my 1997 #406 in that
little aft berth seat storage hole too. No idea how it got there. Might
have leaked during downpours thru a stanchion seat(?) There were no water
marks on the wall. Normally it is dry but I don't store anything in there
anyway.

I have overfilled my bow water tank and I have an inspection port that
leaked water during the overflow and maybe for a while after I turned off
the hose filling the tank. I figured/assumed the inspection port was
leaking because I noticed water coming into my otherwise very dry bilge for
a couple days which caused me to open the floorboards and discover that
water had built up in the forward areas, which I assumed came from the
overflow of the tank.  Since the overflow, which was a few years ago, there
has been no unexpected water entering my bilge from the forward area. I
hope that make sense.

John Meyers
Muskegon, MI



On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:50 AM, Diane <dianeflr at aol.com> wrote:

> How do I get to it?
>
> Captain Diane Fowler, Sellstate Priority Realty Network.
> Www.CapeCoralHomes.com
> 239-850-4935
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:26 AM, John morrison <sail-ability at sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like your fill hose has come disconnected or otherwise failed.
> This is on the starboard side of the boat.
> > Cheers
> > JohnM
> > 1999#574
> >> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:20 AM, Diane <dianeflr at aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> When I filled my water tank in the bow, the hose ran about three
> minutes after it was filled . Overflowed down deck
> >>
> >> Afterwards, I found Water
> >>
> >> 1.  in aft cabin seat storage nook,
> >>
> >> 2.  aft cabin “bin”in stern,
> >>
> >> 3.  and Water trickled down the starboard side IN bilge for hours!
> >>
> >> Used minimal water for 2 days ( just bow tank) and ran out of water!!
> >>
> >> Removed boards in v berth- don’t see any standing water- but smells
> musty and wood swollen- like moisture was high.
> >>
> >> Any ideas????
> >>
> >> Catalina plumbing layout shows pipes running from tank along PORT
> side!  So, how did I get Water along starboard???
> >>
> >> Captain Diane
> >> S/V Windy City
> >> Cape Coral , FL
> >>
> >> Captain Diane Fowler, Sellstate Priority Realty Network.
> >> Www.CapeCoralHomes.com
> >> 239-850-4935
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Mar 18, 2018, at 6:38 PM, John morrison <sail-ability at sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> If you’re going with an electric toilet, might as well go all the way
> and get electric winches, ‘cause if you can’t stroke the poop pump, not
> likely able to crank the jib drum……just saying’.
> >>> Cheers
> >>> JohnM
> >>> 1999#574
> >>>> On Mar 18, 2018, at 3:13 PM, Ken Geiger <kendgb at aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Just got back from a charter on a catamaran in Thailand, Andaman
> Sea.  The 2 year old cat had electric toilets.  One had recurring problems
> in discharging the waste.  The other thing I noticed is they probably moved
> a lot more water than what I would want my holding tank to deal with.
> Northern Dream is a fresh water boat where managing the holding tank pump
> out is always a part of our cruise plan.  So electric is not for us.
> >>>>
> >>>> FWIW
> >>>>
> >>>> Ken
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: John Meyers <jcmeyers7 at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: C320-List <C320-List at catalina320.com>
> >>>> Sent: Sun, Mar 18, 2018 2:08 pm
> >>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] ENGINE SPACE VENTING
> >>>>
> >>>> Just in case some of you may think electric heads are a joke......
> >>>>
> >>>> www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1&id=2391500
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Donald Lawson <dnclaws at aol.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Graeme
> >>>>> Best answer is to ask Catalina and get the final answer.
> >>>>> I had some refrig work done and the fuel tank cleaned this winter.
> Mechs
> >>>>> crushed dryer hose, it was fine before that. Tried to fix it but it
> >>>>> probably needs to be replaced.
> >>>>> Also I really am going to install an electric head.
> >>>>> Don
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mar 18, 2018, at 3:29 AM, Graeme Clark wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Don
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nothing in the data you have kindly transcribed for us states that
> the
> >>>>> blower is specifically there to provide combustion air
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It clearly states that combustion air “may” be supplied by natural
> >>>>> ventilation and that a blower may be provided simply to remove
> odours or
> >>>>> improve working conditions. In other words extra ventilation is only
> needed
> >>>>> if natural ventilation is insufficient.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If natural ventilation on the 320 was insufficient and it was
> necessary
> >>>>> to have the blower running whenever the engine was running then (a)
> it
> >>>>> would state that in the C320 manual and (b) it would probably be
> hotwired
> >>>>> to the ignition key so it couldn’t be left off by accident
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just saying!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Graeme
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sent from mobile: please excuse typos etc.!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 17 Mar 2018, at 23:05, John Frost <john at frostnet.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> WOW! Actual facts that we can use. Great research job Don
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> John
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> John C. Frost
> >>>>>>> President
> >>>>>>> Safety Engineering Services, Inc.
> >>>>>>> 2627 Trailway Rd.
> >>>>>>> Huntsville, AL 35801
> >>>>>>> (256) 650-0335
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com]
> On
> >>>>> Behalf
> >>>>>>> Of Donald Lawson
> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 5:14 PM
> >>>>>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] ENGINE SPACE VENTING
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jeff & Graeme
> >>>>>>> Rather than have a debate, I thought I would give all the data I
> could
> >>>>>>> collect and let everyone make their own decision as to use/removal
> of
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>> blower Some of you will have to convert to english/metric where I
> did
> >>>>> not.
> >>>>>>> Also, this is for a 3YM30 Yanmar only but I expect it applies
> somewhat
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>> all diesels.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This 66 cu in (1.115 l) engine needs air at about 50 cu ft/min at
> 3000
> >>>>> rpm..
> >>>>>>> Assumes a .9 volumetric efficiency for this engine (under 1000
> hours).
> >>>>>>> Older diesels are above or near .8.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Per the Yanmar Installation Manual (not owners manual):  1) Maximum
> >>>>> engine
> >>>>>>> room Temp shall be 140 deg F (60 C) and 2) Minimum Engine Room
> >>>>> Ventilation
> >>>>>>> Fresh Air Exchange
> >>>>>>> (Ventilator Capacity) shall be 194 cu ft/min (5.5 cu meters/min).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Per Yanmar Installation Manual horsepower decreases from 30 to 29,
> at
> >>>>> rated
> >>>>>>> rpm,  when temp at the fuel pump increases from 25 C to 40 C.
> Expect
> >>>>> lower
> >>>>>>> hp at 60C.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Rule and Shurflo ventilators have about 250 Cu ft/min capacity
> with a
> >>>>> 4in
> >>>>>>> hose.  I think I have a 4in dryer hose crushed to 2 in.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ABYC Diesel Ventilation Standard H-32, from 1987, states:
> >>>>>>> H-32.4.
> >>>>>>> PURPOSE
> >>>>>>> These recommended practices and engineering standards establish
> >>>>> requirements
> >>>>>>> for ventilation of boats using diesel fuel.
> >>>>>>> SCOPE
> >>>>>>> These recommended practices and engineering standards apply to
> boats
> >>>>> using
> >>>>>>> diesel fuel only for electrical generation, mechanical power and
> >>>>> propulsion.
> >>>>>>> NOTE:  Ventilation requirements for boats using gasoline as fuel
> are
> >>>>>>> contained in ABYC H-2, "Ventilation ofBoats Using Gasoline".
> >>>>>>> DEFINITION
> >>>>>>> Ventilation - The changing of air within a compartment by natural
> or
> >>>>>>> mechanical means. Ventilation may be effected by dilution of
> >>>>> contaminated
> >>>>>>> air, by introduction of fresh air, or by local exhaust of
> contaminated
> >>>>> air.
> >>>>>>> REQUIREMENTS -IN GENERAL
> >>>>>>> a Ventilation Principle - Ventilation cannot be relied upon to
> remove
> >>>>> all
> >>>>>>> vapors that are pos- sible from the presence of liquid fuel
> resulting
> >>>>> from
> >>>>>>> fuel system failures or fuel spillage. (See ABYC H-33, "Diesel Fuel
> >>>>>>> Systems") b Storage Batteries - Compartments containing storage
> >>>>> batteries
> >>>>>>> shall be vented to provide for the escape of hydrogen in
> accordance with
> >>>>>>> ABYC E-lO, "Location and Installation of Storage Batteries".
> >>>>>>> c Diesel Fuel Vapors - Due to the characteristics of diesel fuel
> and the
> >>>>>>> closed nature of the diesel engine fuel system, neither mechanical
> nor
> >>>>>>> natural ventilation, as prescribed for gasoline powered vessels, is
> >>>>>>> necessary to remove diesel fuel vapors. (See ABYC H-2, "Ven-
> tilation of
> >>>>>>> Boats Using Gasoline") d Removal of Fixed Gaseolls Fire
> Extinguishing
> >>>>> System
> >>>>>>> Discharge - Ventilation means shall be provided to remove the
> discharge
> >>>>> from
> >>>>>>> ftxed gaseous ftre extinguishing systems.
> >>>>>>> e Combustion Air - Ventilating provisions and openings to the
> machinery
> >>>>>>> space provided for supplying combustion air shall accomodate the
> air
> >>>>>>> requirements required by the engine manufacturer(s) for each
> propulsion
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>>> auxiliary engine in that space. These openings may also function as
> >>>>> means of
> >>>>>>> providing natural ventilation.
> >>>>>>> f Additional Uses of Ventilation - Power or natural ventilation is
> not
> >>>>>>> required on a diesel boat, but may be used to control compartment
> >>>>>>> temperature. power ventilation may also be used in the machinery
> space
> >>>>> for
> >>>>>>> odor control and personnel comfort while servicing equipment.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Note c and e above.   Could not find the current standard without
> paying
> >>>>>>> money, expect it to be unchanged?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Based on the above the blower is not there to cool the engine but
> does
> >>>>>>> exchange air for engine room cooling and combustion.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Therefore I will:
> >>>>>>> Continue to run my blower during engine operation per Yanmar's
> >>>>> requirement.
> >>>>>>> Change the dryer hose to something more substantial to keep it from
> >>>>> being
> >>>>>>> crushed when I work in the aft areas.
> >>>>>>> Install an electric head
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Happy Boating
> >>>>>>> Don Lawson
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mar 15, 2018, at 2:09 PM, Jeff Hare wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Don,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Per what Graeme said, that's how ours was configured as well from
> the
> >>>>>>> factory.  For a bilge blower to really serve its intended purpose,
> it
> >>>>> would
> >>>>>>> have to suck air in and vent it outside, as it's supposed to remove
> >>>>> residual
> >>>>>>> flammable "gasoline" fumes prior to starting the engine to prevent
> >>>>> awesome
> >>>>>>> dockside entertainment.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So, if you really run the blower when you run the engine, that
> probably
> >>>>>>> only serves to validate the point that the engine gets what it
> needs
> >>>>> just
> >>>>>>> fine through many places like the front and aft engine cover
> cracks,
> >>>>> all the
> >>>>>>> places where hoses and bilge drain holes exist in addition to the
> pair
> >>>>> of 4"
> >>>>>>> holes.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So, generally no need to sweat this.  To my knowledge I've never
> heard
> >>>>>>>> of a 320 having overheating or efficiency issues due to the way
> the it
> >>>>>>>> was installed by the factory.  On the bonus side, without the
> bilge
> >>>>>>>> blower hoses clogging up the transom vent holes, your fridge
> might run
> >>>>>>>> a little cooler.  :)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> There's really nothing stopping you from drilling another 3" or
> 4" vent
> >>>>>>> hole near the existing ones to increase air flow except that you'd
> be
> >>>>> hard
> >>>>>>> pressed to show made any measurable difference.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Cheers!
> >>>>>>>> -Jeff
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On
> Behalf Of
> >>>>>>>> Graeme Clark
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 5:20 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: Catalina list <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] ENGINE SPACE VENTING
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Don
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I may be being stupid, but cant see how running the blower
> improves the
> >>>>>>> airflow *to* the engine? It sucj=ks air away from the engine and is
> >>>>> pretty
> >>>>>>> inefficnet at that according to Jeff). The suction from the air
> intake
> >>>>> on
> >>>>>>> the engine itself when the piston is drawing in air probaly
> exceeds the
> >>>>>>> suction from the blower by a factor of about 50 at a guess.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Only if your blower was reversed to pump air INTO the engine
> >>>>> compartment
> >>>>>>> would any possible benefit be accrued, surely?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Just a thought
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Graeme
> >>>>>>>> #366
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 15 Mar 2018, at 04:26, Donald Lawson <dnclaws at aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> IMO.
> >>>>>>>>> When I rebuilt/ replaced my engine(s) I learned a lot about the
> >>>>> Amount of
> >>>>>>> air a Diesel needs to run.  It needs a lot of cold air to run
> >>>>> efficiently.
> >>>>>>>>> I run the blower while the engine is running, not to cool the
> engine,
> >>>>> but
> >>>>>>> to ensure that I provide the engine with enough cool combustion
> air.
> >>>>>>>>> I agree with Jeff that the blower is not used for cooling the
> engine
> >>>>>>>>> although I don't quite agree about better paths of air for
> engine run.
> >>>>>>>>> My aft cabin mattress pretty much precludes that. HOWEVER If you
> >>>>>>>>> removed the hoses there may be enough SQ area of opening to get
> rid of
> >>>>>>> them.  Will do the math and get back to ya'll, but I seem to
> remember a
> >>>>> 3in
> >>>>>>> dia hole is enough for a 2GM20.  We have 2, so may not be an
> issue.  I
> >>>>> will
> >>>>>>> rid myself of them in the future. I pretty much crushed them
> working on
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>> fridge anyway.
> >>>>>>>>> Don Lawson
> >>>>>>>>> #1104
> >>>>>>>>>> On Mar 14, 2018, at 4:35 PM, Jeff Hare wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Not to be critical of anyone's answers, because it's great to
> bounce
> >>>>>>> these thoughts around to help refine your logic, but seriously
> don't
> >>>>>>> over-think this.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The engine doesn't need cool ambient air to keep it cool,
> that's what
> >>>>>>> the raw water heat exchanger is all about. Otherwise they would
> not put
> >>>>> it
> >>>>>>> in an insulated box with a couple lengths of dryer hose.  It also
> >>>>> doesn't
> >>>>>>> need any duct work to feed it air to run because there are SO many
> >>>>> better
> >>>>>>> paths for hull-cooled bilge air to get into the engine that it's
> simply
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>>> non-issue.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> If you really believe that the blower reduces the heat in the
> aft
> >>>>> cabin
> >>>>>>> with the stock hoses, awesome, but it really doesn't.  No way
> you're
> >>>>> moving
> >>>>>>> that much heat out through those crinkled half crushed hoses with
> our
> >>>>> anemic
> >>>>>>> blower. LOL!  You'd have to run the blower till the engine block
> cools
> >>>>> down
> >>>>>>> quite a bit to make any real difference or it'll just reheat the
> air
> >>>>> again.
> >>>>>>> By then someone sharing the mooring field with you would have
> launched a
> >>>>>>> torpedo at your boat because of all the racket that thing produces.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> If you really want to help remove any excess aft cabin heat, I'd
> >>>>> suggest
> >>>>>>> that you open the aft cabin access door at the foot of the bed and
> aft
> >>>>>>> cockpit locker above the fridge compressor and let convection take
> >>>>> over.  If
> >>>>>>> you really wanted to use hoses for some reason, you'd need 4"
> smooth
> >>>>> wall
> >>>>>>> hoses that have fewer bends and a more powerful blower to actually
> get
> >>>>> any
> >>>>>>> reasonable airflow.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm pretty certain that the blower and the hoses were only
> installed
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>> satisfy outdated requirements for a bilge blower (which diesels are
> >>>>> exempt
> >>>>>>> from now in the US anyway).
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers!
> >>>>>>>>>> #809   stay'n hoseless  :)
> >>>>>>>>>> -Jeff Hare
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>> From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On
> Behalf
> >>>>>>>>>> Of John Meyers
> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 3:23 PM
> >>>>>>>>>> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] ENGINE SPACE VENTING
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> John
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> If thing for convection to work you may need one of the
> openings to
> >>>>> be
> >>>>>>> connected to a hose with one end lower than the one without a
> hose. The
> >>>>> one
> >>>>>>> with the hose will let cold/fresh air in when the hot air rises to
> the
> >>>>> vent
> >>>>>>> without the hose.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> John Meyers (The other John M)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 10:08 AM, John morrison
> >>>>>>>>>> <sail-ability at sympatico.ca>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I attended a surveying seminar on the weekend, and for those
> who
> >>>>>>>>>>> may not know ( I didn't) diesel engine spaces do not require
> forced
> >>>>>>>>>>> ventilation in order to pass a survey. You may want to have it
> for
> >>>>>>>>>>> other reasons as has been mentioned in this forum. I intend to
> >>>>>>>>>>> remove the vent hoses from the cowls and let the space vent by
> >>>>>>> convection.
> >>>>>>>>>>> The cowls are high up in the stern so warm air should exit
> pretty
> >>>>>>>>>>> well, we'll see  how that works. When the hoses are attached
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> cowl holes are blocked and hot air from the engine, fridge
> >>>>>>>>>>> compressor, cannot escape; unless of course the blower is r
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>