[C320-list] Westerbeke 30B-3: Electric Fuel pump interlocked to low oil pressure switch

[M Mellon]

HI, Rick.  And thanks for the extensive comments.  The situation was 
actually a little more complicated than I suggested.

A week of so before this engine shutdown incident, the same thing had 
happened to me as you indicated.  The LOP alarm went off more of less 
spontaneously while motoring. I checked the engine and it seemed fine, so 
being short of time, I just disconnected the alarm in the cockpit and 
continued to finish the trip.

A week later, the shutdown occurred due to the broken lead.  I did have over 
1/2 a tank of fuel, but I think without the electric fuel pump running, the 
engine would start to run, then promptly quit.  However, in my case, it was 
aggravated by the following.  Otherwise, maybe it would have run with only 
gravity fuel flow.

When the engine quit, we were in the middle of a busy channel 
(Oakland-Alameda Estuary in SF Bay), so we anchored.  So time was of the 
essence.  My first thought was a blocked fuel filter (not really logical in 
retrospect, because the engine did not sputter and partially run, it just 
quit).  In the process of changing the filters, and especially without the 
electric fuel pump running, I could not get fuel to the injectors, probably 
because there was air in the fuel lines by that time.  Despite trying the 
bleed the fuel system, it would not run.

Well, it turned out that I had used the little vertical pump on the Racor 
fuel filter to try to purge the fuel lines, but I later found the pump shaft 
was leaking air after I used it.  So it just kept introducing more air.   A 
good diesel mechanic finally found that problem.  By the way, he also 
replaced the Westerbeke LOP switch with a Hobbs 76575-4 model, which he says 
is more reliable itself and reconfigured the lead connections (also with a 
coil shape) to reduce the vibration-induced movement of those leads.

I did check the LOP switch contacts with an ohmmeter (contacts open when 
engine not running, closed when engine running with sufficient oil pressure) 
and that looked OK.  My error was that I did not check the switch lead 
continuity.  The LOP switch lead on my boat broke in the same place as 
yours, inside the spade terminal where it was not apparent.

Thanks for the info on the Kubota fuel pump at NAPA.  I'll pay them a visit 
and get one.

There are about 700 hours on the engine, and 22 years.

Very helpful discussion.  Thanks for taking the time.

Best wishes,

Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick Sulewski" <rsulewski at bex.net>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2018 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Westerbeke 30B-3: Fuel pump interlocked to ; ow oil 
pressure switch


Mike,
On my Westerbeke powered hull #277 I learned in my second year that   a 
broken spade blade connector on the oil  pressure sender switch set off the 
low oil pressure alarm  buzzer while the engine continued to run. To 
circumvent the alarm until I could secure a new oil sender I simply 
connected the two oil sender wires to bypass the oil pressure sender. In 
this instance  I learned that it was apparent when the fuel pump continued 
to run ("click") when the ignition key was turned on while bypassing the oil 
pressure sender switch.  Not a condition to be tolerated for very long for 
safety reasons because the fuel pump could continue to run or leak while the 
engine stopped running if the ignition switch was not switched off. I had 
another  instances of a broken oil pressure spade on my 4 year old 
Westerbeke again due to the rigidity of the oil sending wires until I added 
a section of softer wire that I coiled to provide some flex as the engine 
vibrated.

When the engine stopped  few years later  I was convinced that I was out of 
fuel while motoring up to a transient dock with just under a quarter tank 
registering on my fuel gauge.  So, after successfully sailing up to that 
transient dock on the headsail when the wind was blowing off the dock was 
not enough excitement,  I later learned that I had a broken power lead to 
the fuel pump.  I had not really run out of fuel after all. How I learned 
that fact was interesting because  I initially believed that I had run out 
of fuel and after adding a gallon of fuel, the engine fired right up.  But, 
while I was in the cabin  while the engine was running I noted that I could 
not hear the fuel pump run ("click").  I pulled off the engine cover and 
then discovered the broken fuel pump power lead had separated from the 
connector I had installed having replaced the fuel pump a few years earlier. 
(BTW,  with a NAPA generic fuel pump for a Kubota diesel garden tractor that 
continues to work well to this day.)  I repaired that lead and continued on 
without the need to add  more fuel because the fuel pump could draw from the 
bottom of my quarter filled tank. Lesson learned is that the Westerbeke 
engine will run even when fuel can gravity feed the fuel system after the 
fuel pump fails,  as long as you have enough fuel in the tank which was 
about a quarter full according to my fuel gauge.

Why is this important....? Because if you had more than about  a quarter 
tank of fuel when your oil pressure sender wire broke, your engine may have 
run as long as it was above the gravity feed level because a portion of the 
fuel tank is higher than the fuel pump and fuel distribution line on your 
Westerbeke engine as Is the case with my hull # which is close to your hull 
#. Later hull #s switched to a different power supplier following the 
Westerbeke run of hulls. If you had added any fuel to your tank thinking 
that you had run out of fuel, your broken oil sender wire may be a random 
fail while your fuel pump may have already failed. So, check to learn if you 
can hear the fuel pump "click" when your engine is running and if you cannot 
hear the pump  run, take the two oil sender wires and link them to 
temporarily  and then turn on the ignition switch without starting the 
engine because if the fuel pump is working, you should hear the fuel pump 
clicking. Be certain to also check the power lead to your fuel pump. My OEM 
fuel pump failed after about 600 hours and after replacing it with a NAPA 
model, I now carry a spare NAPA pump for less than $30 when a red painted 
OEM pump was well over $100 about 20 years ago

Do my observation impact your oil sender wire conclusions?

Rick
  My-Ria,  95' 320 Hull # 277

-----Original Message-----
From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf 
Of M Mellon
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2018 5:29 PM
To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Westerbeke 30B-3: Fuel pump interlocked to low oil 
pressure switch

A note here I learned recently:  For the Westerbeke 30B-3 used in our boat,
LaVida #324, 1996, it appears that the electric fuel pump is interlocked to
the low oil pressure switch.  If the LOP switch indicates low oil pressure
(switch contacts open), the fuel pump is turned off. and the engine shuts
down.  The same thing happens, however, if there is simply a break in the
wiring to the low oil pressure switch - it appears then to be open - and
also shuts down the engine.

The idea apparently is that if you encounter low oil pressure (due to a loss
of oil for some real reason) then the engine is shut down pretty much
immediately to prevent further engine damage.

Fair winds,

Mike
LaVida
Hull 324, 1996

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Elizabeth Schwartz" <schwartz781 at optimum.net>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2018 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Glow Plugs & Keyswitch - Perkins Perama M30 Engine


Ahoy....#245, with westerbeke.....I have had starting issues on and off
since getting this one 5 years ago.....all electric related....weak
connections from wire harness to engine from helm....then solenoid and
10 amp fuse to glow plugs and fuel pump through oil pressure sensor....I
am also thinking about re wiring glow plugs and fuel pump to a dedicated
direct switch at the helm.....most difficult part might be finding space
for more wires in tubes from deck to engine inst. pod.....Joe


On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 08:28 PM, Dave Hupe wrote:

> Update ……. Problem resolved … it was the glow plugs (2 of 3 bad) that
> prevented my engine from starting. The engine lit up perfectly after
> I installed them this afternoon.
> I also have confirmed that my glow plug relay still continues to feed
> 12 volts to the plugs even after starting (fed by the "on" position of
> my 3-position key switch). This is not good, but apparently still
> worked a long time (about 8-10 years total) for the previous owner/me
> until this failure. I am probably going to follow Warren Updike's
> suggestions to install a pushbutton that will control the glow plugs
> (so that they will only energize when I push the button to warm before
> starting). Or, I will have the pushbutton control the starter and
> arrange to have the glow plugs on the 3rd spring-loaded position of
> the key switch. I don't think this will be difficult or expensive.
> I got lucky and only needed to pull apart one fuel line coupling
> (located near the front of the engine on top of the high pressure fuel
> pump) that completely blocked the forwardmost glow plug. I was able
> to bleed it easily when reassembled using the hand operated lift pump
> and had only minor difficulty getting a good seal (replaced the copper
> fuel line coupling washers).
> Now.....back to sailing before the end of the season .
> Dave Hupe
> 1994 Cat 320 "Mayan Sun" (#32)
> Holland, MI
>