[C320-list] Westerbeke 30B-3: Electric Fuel pump interlocked to low oil pressure switch

[M Mellon]

Great idea, Joe.  Thanks.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Elizabeth Schwartz" <schwartz781 at optimum.net>
To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Westerbeke 30B-3: Electric Fuel pump interlocked to 
low oil pressure switch


Ahoy...I have installed a bypass wire in event of oil pressure wire
failure......I cut the wire to blower in locker by refridge
compressor....installed an on-off-on switch...one side to blower, the
other to hot lead of fuel pump....ran wire under port side of aft berth,
to back of engine...spliced it to positive wire to fuel pump. If wiring
through oil pressure sender fails....turn on blower switch, move switch
in locker by helm....and good to go.....just check oil level and
pressure......i may add an oil press guage somewhere
sometime....Joe...#245

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 12:11 AM, M Mellon wrote:

> HI, Rick.  And thanks for the extensive comments.  The situation was
> actually a little more complicated than I suggested.
>
> A week of so before this engine shutdown incident, the same thing had
> happened to me as you indicated.  The LOP alarm went off more of less
> spontaneously while motoring. I checked the engine and it seemed fine,
> so being short of time, I just disconnected the alarm in the cockpit
> and continued to finish the trip.
>
> A week later, the shutdown occurred due to the broken lead.  I did
> have over 1/2 a tank of fuel, but I think without the electric fuel
> pump running, the engine would start to run, then promptly quit.
> However, in my case, it was aggravated by the following.  Otherwise,
> maybe it would have run with only gravity fuel flow.
>
> When the engine quit, we were in the middle of a busy channel
> (Oakland-Alameda Estuary in SF Bay), so we anchored.  So time was of
> the essence.  My first thought was a blocked fuel filter (not really
> logical in retrospect, because the engine did not sputter and
> partially run, it just quit).  In the process of changing the filters,
> and especially without the electric fuel pump running, I could not get
> fuel to the injectors, probably because there was air in the fuel
> lines by that time.  Despite trying the bleed the fuel system, it
> would not run.
>
> Well, it turned out that I had used the little vertical pump on the
> Racor fuel filter to try to purge the fuel lines, but I later found
> the pump shaft was leaking air after I used it.  So it just kept
> introducing more air.   A good diesel mechanic finally found that
> problem.  By the way, he also replaced the Westerbeke LOP switch with
> a Hobbs 76575-4 model, which he says is more reliable itself and
> reconfigured the lead connections (also with a coil shape) to reduce
> the vibration-induced movement of those leads.
>
> I did check the LOP switch contacts with an ohmmeter (contacts open
> when engine not running, closed when engine running with sufficient
> oil pressure) and that looked OK.  My error was that I did not check
> the switch lead continuity.  The LOP switch lead on my boat broke in
> the same place as yours, inside the spade terminal where it was not
> apparent.
>
> Thanks for the info on the Kubota fuel pump at NAPA.  I'll pay them a
> visit and get one.
>
> There are about 700 hours on the engine, and 22 years.
>
> Very helpful discussion.  Thanks for taking the time.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Mike
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Sulewski" To: Sent: Saturday,
> September 08, 2018 6:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Westerbeke 30B-3: Fuel pump interlocked to ;
> ow oil pressure switch
>
>
> Mike,
> On my Westerbeke powered hull #277 I learned in my second year that
> a broken spade blade connector on the oil  pressure sender switch set
> off the low oil pressure alarm  buzzer while the engine continued to
> run. To circumvent the alarm until I could secure a new oil sender I
> simply connected the two oil sender wires to bypass the oil pressure
> sender. In this instance  I learned that it was apparent when the fuel
> pump continued to run ("click") when the ignition key was turned on
> while bypassing the oil pressure sender switch.  Not a condition to be
> tolerated for very long for safety reasons because the fuel pump could
> continue to run or leak while the engine stopped running if the
> ignition switch was not switched off. I had another  instances of a
> broken oil pressure spade on my 4 year old Westerbeke again due to the
> rigidity of the oil sending wires until I added a section of softer
> wire that I coiled to provide some flex as the engine vibrated.
>
> When the engine stopped  few years later  I was convinced that I was
> out of fuel while motoring up to a transient dock with just under a
> quarter tank registering on my fuel gauge.  So, after successfully
> sailing up to that transient dock on the headsail when the wind was
> blowing off the dock was not enough excitement,  I later learned that
> I had a broken power lead to the fuel pump.  I had not really run out
> of fuel after all. How I learned that fact was interesting because  I
> initially believed that I had run out of fuel and after adding a
> gallon of fuel, the engine fired right up.  But, while I was in the
> cabin  while the engine was running I noted that I could not hear the
> fuel pump run ("click").  I pulled off the engine cover and then
> discovered the broken fuel pump power lead had separated from the
> connector I had installed having replaced the fuel pump a few years
> earlier. (BTW,  with a NAPA generic fuel pump for a Kubota diesel
> garden tractor that continues to work well to this day.)  I repaired
> that lead and continued on without the need to add  more fuel because
> the fuel pump could draw from the bottom of my quarter filled tank.
> Lesson learned is that the Westerbeke engine will run even when fuel
> can gravity feed the fuel system after the fuel pump fails,  as long
> as you have enough fuel in the tank which was about a quarter full
> according to my fuel gauge.
>
> Why is this important....? Because if you had more than about  a
> quarter tank of fuel when your oil pressure sender wire broke, your
> engine may have run as long as it was above the gravity feed level
> because a portion of the fuel tank is higher than the fuel pump and
> fuel distribution line on your Westerbeke engine as Is the case with
> my hull # which is close to your hull #. Later hull #s switched to a
> different power supplier following the Westerbeke run of hulls. If you
> had added any fuel to your tank thinking that you had run out of fuel,
> your broken oil sender wire may be a random fail while your fuel pump
> may have already failed. So, check to learn if you can hear the fuel
> pump "click" when your engine is running and if you cannot hear the
> pump  run, take the two oil sender wires and link them to temporarily
> and then turn on the ignition switch without starting the engine
> because if the fuel pump is working, you should hear the fuel pump
> clicking. Be certain to also check the power lead to your fuel pump.
> My OEM fuel pump failed after about 600 hours and after replacing it
> with a NAPA model, I now carry a spare NAPA pump for less than $30
> when a red painted OEM pump was well over $100 about 20 years ago
>
> Do my observation impact your oil sender wire conclusions?
>
> Rick
>   My-Ria,  95' 320 Hull # 277
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On
> Behalf Of M Mellon
> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2018 5:29 PM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: [C320-list] Westerbeke 30B-3: Fuel pump interlocked to low
> oil pressure switch
>
> A note here I learned recently:  For the Westerbeke 30B-3 used in our
> boat,
> LaVida #324, 1996, it appears that the electric fuel pump is
> interlocked to
> the low oil pressure switch.  If the LOP switch indicates low oil
> pressure
> (switch contacts open), the fuel pump is turned off. and the engine
> shuts
> down.  The same thing happens, however, if there is simply a break in
> the
> wiring to the low oil pressure switch - it appears then to be open -
> and
> also shuts down the engine.
>
> The idea apparently is that if you encounter low oil pressure (due to
> a loss
> of oil for some real reason) then the engine is shut down pretty much
> immediately to prevent further engine damage.
>
> Fair winds,
>
> Mike
> LaVida
> Hull 324, 1996
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Schwartz" To: Sent:
> Friday, September 07, 2018 5:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Glow Plugs & Keyswitch - Perkins Perama M30
> Engine
>
>
> Ahoy....#245, with westerbeke.....I have had starting issues on and
> off
> since getting this one 5 years ago.....all electric related....weak
> connections from wire harness to engine from helm....then solenoid and
> 10 amp fuse to glow plugs and fuel pump through oil pressure
> sensor....I
> am also thinking about re wiring glow plugs and fuel pump to a
> dedicated
> direct switch at the helm.....most difficult part might be finding
> space
> for more wires in tubes from deck to engine inst. pod.....Joe
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 08:28 PM, Dave Hupe wrote:
>
>> Update ……. Problem resolved … it was the glow plugs (2 of 3 bad) that
>> prevented my engine from starting. The engine lit up perfectly after
>> I installed them this afternoon.
>> I also have confirmed that my glow plug relay still continues to feed
>> 12 volts to the plugs even after starting (fed by the "on" position
>> of
>> my 3-position key switch). This is not good, but apparently still
>> worked a long time (about 8-10 years total) for the previous owner/me
>> until this failure. I am probably going to follow Warren Updike's
>> suggestions to install a pushbutton that will control the glow plugs
>> (so that they will only energize when I push the button to warm
>> before
>> starting). Or, I will have the pushbutton control the starter and
>> arrange to have the glow plugs on the 3rd spring-loaded position of
>> the key switch. I don't think this will be difficult or expensive.
>> I got lucky and only needed to pull apart one fuel line coupling
>> (located near the front of the engine on top of the high pressure
>> fuel
>> pump) that completely blocked the forwardmost glow plug. I was able
>> to bleed it easily when reassembled using the hand operated lift pump
>> and had only minor difficulty getting a good seal (replaced the
>> copper
>> fuel line coupling washers).
>> Now.....back to sailing before the end of the season .
>> Dave Hupe
>> 1994 Cat 320 "Mayan Sun" (#32)
>> Holland, MI
>>
>
>
>