[C320-list] Question abouts Blisters on Early Models

[Allan Field]

Hi Mike - We bought the C387 for 3 main reasons. 1) We wanted a roller
furling main. I am in my 70's now, am pretty much retired, and the thinking
was that as I age, it made sense to stay in the cockpit as much as
possible. 2) We wanted a midline berth. This obviates the need for someone
to be crawling over the other during the middle of the night. 3) We knew
we'd be using the boat much more in retirement so more room both in the
cockpit and down below was appealing.  The C387 hit all the right reasons.

A pro is that the boat sails great with just a 110 jib. A con is that for
us, the 135 jib made the boat tender and more prone to round-up in gusts.
When the wind gets over about 18, we roll in the main a bit for reefing.
With the 135, we had to reef both the main and jib to have control of the
boat.

The fridge on the C387 sucks, at least compared to the C320. The C320's is
the best we have seen from Catalina in older models!

Our C387 had numerous factory defects that the previous owner never
addressed in the 7 years he sailed her, the 9 years he owned her. Pile on
the things that went south naturally that he ignored and we wound up buying
a project boat which was not our intent. Our C387 is a 2006 model. At one
point, about 1.5 years in, we were ready to ditch the boat. We looked at a
brand new C385 and realized that as badly as our boat was finished off, it
"seemed" better constructed than the new C385. So we continued to pump $$$
(over 50K) and hundreds and hundreds of hours of our own labor into her and
now have a boat we are happy with. The first 2 years of our
buyer's remorse, especially given the general lack of support from
Catalina, was acute. As much as we are satisfied with the boat currently,
it probably would be our last Catalina unless we found something in
spectacular shape what was built prior to the 2008 Recession.

And yes, I acknowledge a disconnect in this statement about wanting a
pre-Recession boat but our factory issues were things like no bedding of
stanchions and stem (HUGE PROBLEM HERE), and other worker neglect issues.
The boat itself seems to have solid bones where the 2018 (?) C385 new just
didn't have the same "feel." Our sense is that Catalina may have started
cutting corners after that awful 2008 Recession but that's only an opinion.

Tankage - water, holding and fuel - is very good. There are 3 freshwater
tanks. When winterizing, all 3 tanks have their own gate valve that allows
the water to empty into the bilge. I then use an air compressor and shop
vac to finish getting residual water out of the system. The point is that I
winterize the boat with less than 6 gallons of pink stuff and none goes
into the fresh water system. I did the same with the C320 but the C387 is
easier.

The boat single-hands as well as the C320. The shoal draft keel on ours is
the same as the C320 which is great for where we sail.

The anchoring system is great. The windlass handles both chain and rope.
Ours came with a mounted CQR 35 and a Danforth. The windlass has an up and
a down foot switch. We had to get an oversized bale from Garhauer to handle
our Mantus snubber but that was only about $40.00.

The boat came with 2 4D's, like the C320, and an isolated starting battery
with ACR (automatic charging relay). We are happy with this as it mimics
what we eventually had on our C320.

Not sure if this is a Catalina or a previous owner issue but the cockpit
cushions came in dark blue. In the summer, they got so hot that we had to
put white towels down. Last winter, we had them recovered in white. Would
love to know what someone was thinking when they did them in dark blue...

Running additional cabling through the boat, such as for remote mic, AIS,
Sirius radio, TV, and fans, is easy-peasy compared to the C320.

We don't like the Edson single lever that controls both boat speed and
forward/reverse. We have become used to it but vastly prefer the 2 levers
on the C320.

The engines on both of our Catalinas are/were Yanmar. Easy to service and
get to.

The shower on the C387 is separate from the toilet area so has its own door
and overboard bilge pump and float switch in the floor. No more flooding
the entire head and no worries about where the water is going. The head
also is electric with a built-in macerator under the bowl. The thing is
plumbed for seawater flushing but we use fresh water, getting water into a
16-ounce measuring cup and pour/flush. Low on the To Do (really, Good
Intentions) List is to plumb for fresh water. I doubt we will ever take
that project on though as the cup works fine.

The boat came with 2 heat pumps for heating and cooling. The aft cabin and
head are served by a 7K unit. The main cabin and V-berth by a 16K unit. I
think this came factory-installed and ducted. This is a really nice set-up.
And both will run at the same time off of our Honda 2000 generator! The
C320 was an after-factory 12K unit and would not run off the generator.

Down below, there are 2 seats on the starboard side with a table in
between, nice for setting up 2 computers or taking meals down below. On one
of the seats, turn 180 degrees and you are at the chart table/Nav station.
Again, a nice setup. The port side is very similar to the C320's starboard
side. A large dining table that we leave in the down position all the time
with a cushion on top, the TV mounted to the V-verth bulkhead, and we have
a "family room."

Storage - adequate. There are 2 hanging lockers and two lockers with
shelves plus the normal cutouts around the boat and under the cushions.
There are 2 cockpit lockers both in the aft section of the boat; there is
no port side locker like on the C320. However, these 2 lockers are very
deep. In fact, each has a step mounted halfway down to ease access to the
bottom. One big con is that the cockpit deck does not drain from rain or
washing. I assume that if we loaded those aft lockers with extended
cruising supplies, and maybe a genset and watermaker, the stern would come
down enough that the water would drain better. But without that load,
assuming that would fix this issue, the cockpit non-drainage is a nuisance.

Jerry Taylor, a former Association Commodore, has a C42. You might want to
reach out to him to get his feedback. I went down to his boat a few years
ago to try and help him winterize with the compressor and shop vac system.
The plumbing system on that boat was so complicated, with many shutoffs
very difficult to find, that we gave up. I think Jerry stuck with the pink
stuff. That said, it was after sailing on her one afternoon that we started
thinking about a bigger boat and had the C387 about 2 months later!

We sailed a Catalina Morgan 440 from Los Angeles to San Diego and back
several years ago. The boat is really nice - incredible dock and sailing
appeal. One thing that was a showstopper for me though was that the coach
roof is so high that sitting down behind the helm and steering did not feel
safe as I could not see over the coach roof. For my night watches, I
remained standing the entire time, and I am 6-feet tall! Yet that high
coach rook opened up the main salon so nicely... Orlando Duran, another
former Association Commodore, is the owner of that boat, probably still
lurks on this list, so may want to weigh-in with more on that boat. He and
Linda love the boat and, last I heard from them, have been living aboard
for maybe 10 years or so in Mexico!

At the end of the day, all boats come with their own set of compromises.
Our C320 was an absolutely incredible Bay boat, gave us great service for
16 years while we were still working and used her mainly on the weekends,
and other than a dealer screw-up, we had no significant issues with her
during our ownership. I guess we were anticipating a similar experience
with the C387. While I don't necessarily regret buying a C387, I do regret
buying this one! But one guarantee - when we go to sell her, someone is
going to get an incredible boat!

Hope this helps!

Allan S. Field
Sea Shadow - C387, #103
Columbia, MD


On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:15 PM Mike Mellon <mmellon at cruzio.com> wrote:

> Astute advice and knowledge as usual, Allan.
>
> What are the pros and cons of your new 387?  I've thought a lot about a
> 42 (for cruising West Coast of Mexico) but the limited fuel capacity is
> a significant drawback.  I've also looked at Catalina/Morgan 440's, do
> you have any knowledge about them?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mike Mellon
> LaVida, 1996 #324
>
>
> On 6/14/2020 3:10 PM, Allan Field wrote:
> > Hi Tony - I owned a 1981 Ericson many years ago that severely blistered.
> > The hull layup was with polyester resin. My limited understanding is that
> > water always is going to migrate through a hull (unless there is a
> barrier
> > coat under the paint) through osmosis. With the polyester resins, the
> water
> > and the resin mix to create an acid that then eats its way back out.
> > Catalina has been using vinylester resin for many years and I have not
> > heard of blisters with vinylester. However, there was a run of C320's
> where
> > vinylester was not used and some of those did eventually blister. And I
> > don't know when Catalina started using vinylester. With hull #30, it is
> > possible that vinylester came later. My memory, and maybe the Association
> > archives could speak to this better, is that about 150 or so C320's in
> the
> > 300-500 series had problems.
> >
> > All that said, a couple things to think about. First, make sure what you
> > are seeing isn't just paint blisters. Many dealers did poor (or no!) jobs
> > of dewaxing hulls before applying bottom paint for the first time which
> > leads to paint blisters, something that never is going to go away until a
> > thorough paint peel and dewaxing is done. Second is that if you opt for
> the
> > peel down of the hull, the boat needs to dry out first. This is a lengthy
> > process for the drying out and as you note, the peel down is not cheap.
> On
> > my Ericson, it was so badly blistered that I opted for the peel down, the
> > boat was out of commission for almost a year, and the cost in 1990 was
> > $8500 with one quote coming in at $12,500! Third, no boat has ever sunk
> due
> > to blistering, at least to my knowledge. So I am not too entirely sure
> how
> > big of a problem blistering is other than cosmetically... Fourth, you may
> > want to start with some research on grinding down blisters first and then
> > refilling where you ground down. There are many articles out there on how
> > to do this. If you only have a few blisters, this may be the way to go.
> >
> > Finally, I am on my second Catalina. I had the 320 #808 for 16 years, it
> > stayed in the water all year round on the Chesapeake Bay, and came out
> > every 2 years for about a week to lightly sand the hull, apply new
> ablative
> > paint, and take care of the underwater metals. On the off-year, I had a
> > diver change the zinc. Same routine with the Catalina 387 that we now own
> > except that the previous owner did put a barrier coat on at transfer of
> > ownership.
> >
> > Hope all this helps!
> >
> > Allan S. Field
> > Sea Shadow - C387, #103
> > Columbia, MD
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 12:07 PM <amshd2 at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> All
> >> I have a earley model 320 a 94 Hull # 30.  She stay in the water and
> comes
> >> out every 2 years for new bottom paint.
> >> Last uear she came out and we found a couple of blisters.  This winter
> she
> >> came out for some unscheduled maintenance and we found 3 more
> blisters.  A
> >> moisture mter should a evelated level of mositure throughout the hull
> and
> >> the yard recommened a full peeling.
> >> Up until now I never heard of a peeling. From what I have learned so far
> >> it sounds like it takes the hull down to the fiberglass.  Thus allows
> the
> >> glass to dry and then put down a new barrier coat.
> >> It is not a cheap process.
> >> Has anyone had this done?    Thanks ahead of time
> >> Tony
> >>
> >>
> --
> Michael Mellon
> 45 Ortalon Ave
> Santa Cruz, CA 95060
> mmellon at cruzio.com
> 831-425-5583 Home
>
>