[C320-list] Fuel Injector or Injector Pump?

Sun May 10 03:53:13 PDT 2020

I don't know the M30 as our C320 is fitted with a Yanmar. But my Yanmar will fire, and even sometimes start, on two cylinders. (rough as hell!)

It seems an extraordinary coincidence that all three injectors or all three sets of valves on your M30 ( i assume its 3 cylinder?) fail at the same time.

The problem must surely lie somewhere common to all cylinders

Just a thought

Graeme

1996 #366

> On 9 May 2020, at 18:50, Jeff Smith <jeffreyssmith at live.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark,
> 
> You are correct about the “leak off” lines, now that I think about it. I am not real keen on spraying diesel throughout the boat anyway, so maybe I will clean and reinstall them. If that does not work, then I do have a rebuild shop that offered to test them for free if I leave them for a few days. Since my boat is four hours away, that’s a lot of down time (maybe I can fix my anchor light and everything other thing other than the motor that also needs attention) to wait for the test. 
> 
> When I say good flow at the injector, I had removed the “leak off” line and then broke loose the next 11/16” nut on the injector. At that point, fuel is flowing well. Maybe that is before the fuel shutoff, though. I can clearly see the fuel shutoff cable moving with the lever actuated (or my hand). 
> 
> Thanks for the good advice about the shims. I do have the manual and I am trying to make some notes that will be easy-to-follow.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> ’94, #121
> 
>> On May 9, 2020, at 12:21 PM, <mseyler at cox.net> <mseyler at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Jeff, 
>> 
>> I have a 1995 (No. 232) with an M30.  While I worked on cars a bit in my college days, I had no experience whatsoever with diesels until I bought my C320.  But I am finding that owning a 25 year old diesel engine is an education in itself.
>> 
>> While the injectors can be checked out of the engine, you won't be able to do it easily with the existing fuel lines from the pump to the injectors, because they are solid lines, and bent to an exact shape.  Also, the "leak off" lines won't be in place with the injector out of position, and may prevent you from getting the right pressure on the injector.  However, I was able to pull the injectors from my M30 and take them to a diesel injection shop, who tested, and ultimately rebuilt them.  (You want to make sure that the injectors "pop" at the right pressure, and spray a fine mist in a uniform pattern.)  The shop didn't charge me to check the injectors, and charged me about the same for the rebuild as the rebuilt injectors from Parts4Engines.  If you do remove the injectors, make sure you get replacements for the copper "gaskets" that go between the injector and the engine.  If you don't have one, I recommend downloading the Perkins manual from the C320 website, as it will show you the parts in an exploded view.
>> 
>> One thing I'm not sure I'm understanding is your statement that "when I open the injectors and operate the Racor bleed pump, I get good flow."   I may be misunderstanding what you are describing, but I don't think the pressure from the pump on the Racor should be getting past the injector pump except at the moment when fuel should be injected to each cylinder.  If it is, I'd suspect the seals in the injector pump.  And if the flow you are describing is where the line from the fuel filter goes into the injector pump, I think that is before point where the effect of the kill valve would apply.  
>> 
>> If you do decide to have the injector pump rebuilt, be careful to keep track of the little shims that go between the injector pump and the engine block.  That's how injection timing is controlled on the M30, and if you don't put the same shims back when you put the pump back in, it will mess up the timing.
>> 
>> Best of luck,
>> 
>> Mark Seyler
>> S/V Reality
>> C320 No. 232
>> New Orleans, LA
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of Jeff Smith
>> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 10:24 AM
>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fuel Injector or Injector Pump?
>> 
>> Clay and Bob,
>> 
>> Thanks for the additional information. I am thinking maybe I will pull the injectors and clean them, and then put a little bit of oil in the cylinder before I re-assemble. Then we will see what happens.
>> 
>> Jeff
>> ’94, #121
>> 
>>> On May 9, 2020, at 9:15 AM, Clay Carter <fclaycarter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jeff:
>>> 
>>> I am FAR from an engine mechanic with little experience, but I can share some insight on my 1995 with Perkins M30.  Previous owner WAS a mechanical type.  He said that at some point the engine developed problems and would not run. He had fuel removed, tank cleaned and inspection port added.  Also replaced all external fuel lines and filters.  Problem persisted.  He and his wife took a day, removed and cleaned all injectors.  Replaced anything external fuel related that wasn’t expensive.  (Sorry I cant offer more specifics, but it was related to the injectors and lines). Anything not replaced was removed and deep cleaned.  He said it was quite the job for them but he had experience with this sort of projects. Problem solved ever since.  I’ve about 1700 hours on her and she runs well.
>>> 
>>> Clay Carter
>>> We’ll Sea
>>> 225
>>> Alamitos Bay, CA
>>> 
>>>> On May 9, 2020, at 5:04 AM, Jeff Smith <jeffreyssmith at live.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Joe (not John),
>>>> 
>>>> I am not sure. The problem started last year and I suspected bad fuel. I have completely drained the tank and lines and changed filters, but the problems persist. I would expect incorrect valve lash to show loss of power, etc., but I am not sure about hard starting.
>>>> 
>>>> Several people have mentioned the kill switch. Correct me if I am wrong but, if the kill switch was not acting properly (stuck in the engaged position), then I should not get fuel at the injectors. However, when I open the injectors and operate the Racor bleed pump, I get good flow.
>>>> 
>>>> I talked to an injector pump rebuild guy that said I can remove each injector, attach re-attach them to the fuel line outside of the motor, and turn it over (be careful to stay well clear). If I see a fine spray, then I at least know the injectors are working. I will check back and let you guys know when it is solved.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jeff Smith
>>>> ’94, #121
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 8, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Joe Jablonowski <appleton1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> When was the last time the valves were adjusted?- Joe Jablonowski  
>>>>> C320 #103 Perkins M30
>>>>> 
>>>>> ====================================
>>>>> On Friday, May 8, 2020, 06:31:03 PM EDT, Jeff Smith <jeffreyssmith at live.com> wrote:  
>>>>> 
>>>>> John,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks. We try to push the lever as far as it would go, but that does not mean the valve is working. Next time over I will check that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On May 8, 2020, at 4:55 PM, sail-ability at sympatico.ca wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1200hr is just about broke in for those engines, nowhere’s near time 4 a rebuild. If you have a diesel shop near you, you can take them out and have them tested. $60 is awfully cheap for an injector, I got mine tested for $40 each!
>>>>>> You might check and see that the fuel cutoff is working correctly 
>>>>>> ie when you push in the handle the valve is opening as it should. 
>>>>>> Weird JohnM
>>>>>> 1999#574
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On May 8, 2020, at 4:39 PM, Jeff Smith <jeffreyssmith at live.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> New problem (of course) on my Perkins M30. Hump hose and everything is installed. Went to start - no joy! Some history - I sucked all of the diesel out in the fall and refilled with brand new diesel (from a gas station, not the marina). I included the appropriate additives. There is no water in the Racor bowl and it comes out clear, so I do not suspect bad fuel.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It turns over fine (I replaced the starter battery last year). I get good fuel at both bleeding points (the fuel filter and the injector pump). When I take the lines loose at the injectors and open the injectors themselves, I get good flow from the Racor hand pump. When I crack the lines at the top of the injector and turn the motor over, I get good fuel flow.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> First and foremost, I am not a diesel mechanic, so I have exhausted my abilities. However, I am guessing it is either the injector(s) or the injector pump. I know I am getting good flow at the injector, so the pump is doing some portion of its job, but maybe not enough to put the fuel under high pressure? Maybe the injectors need to be replaced? I am now grasping at straws. Injectors are $60 a piece from Parts4Engines. The pump rebuild is between $700 and $1,000. My current plan is to replace injectors first and assess. Then pump rebuild if needed. Is there something else I am missing? We checked to make sure the fuel system kill plunger is not activated. I think it will cost me $100 an hour to have someone help me check, which is why I thought I might as well replace the injectors under the assumption that injectors and pumps have a limited life. (1,200 hours on the motor).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jeff Smith
>>>>>>> S/V Sailmates
>>>>>>> '94, #121
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 