[C320-list] How far offshore?

[Guy Smith]

 Hey Troy!
I really like that video! I think it hits a lot of things I've thought about wrt Blue Water boats...
I've had a few experiences sailing Offshore and here's my two cents...I apologize in advance for my ramblings...
When I think about Blue Water Sailing, I think about being out in the ocean for an extended period of time and far enough out that you're past your initial weather window. I'm told that weather predictions five days out can change significantly and you need a boat that has the ability to weather the conditions or get out of the way of the nasty stuff.
So for an expected 5 day or less Blue water trip (say up or down the US coast offshore) you should always pick a weather window that is favorable to your boat and crew's abilities. Wait for weather that is good as it gets...That being said, I would not be comfortable taking Pleiades in the ocean for longer than an overnight, or *maybe* two nights with a perfect weather window i think. A lot would have to happen before that though... Rigging, Hull, Sail and System checks/inspections. A good amount of thinking about stowage and meals for the crew. Install an AIS transponder, figuring on a good life raft and storage location.... A lotta stuff. It was my dream once to own a boat that was capable of sailing around the world, but I'm lucky enough to be involved with Andy and Dennis Schell, helping them deliver their Blue Water boats a few times a year.
My first experience with them was delivering Dennis' Sojourner to the Caribbean in the ARC 1500 in 2013. Sojourner is a Wauquiez/Hood 38 and Dennis was a year into outfitting/prepping her for her first trip. We were a 4 man crew. The trip was expected to take 8 days to travel from Norfolk to Tortola BVI. It took 12 days... Here are some things to add to the video that come to my mind from that trip. Fuel Tankage... Sojourner had 30 gallons of Diesel in the tank and four 5-gallon jerry jugs lashed here and there. The only mechanism to charge up the Batteries was to run the engine for an hour each day. Single point of failure that Dennis alleviated by adding solar panels after our trip. Additionally, we were becalmed 800 miles of the coast, 800 to go, for 3 days and instead of turning on the Iron Jenny to make progress, we only ran the engine in gear during the hour it took to charge the Batteries to conserve fuel. This meant that we were making less than 20 miles a day when other boats in the rally with lots of fuel were motoring hundreds of miles out of the hole we were in to where the wind was. That's primarily why we took the extra few days. We were afraid to burn too much fuel to be able to charge Batteries in an emergency. We did not have a pump to transfer the Jerry cans of fuel *into* the fuel tank! Holding a Jerry can inverted over a deck fitting that is inches from the edge of the stern with the stern rail in the way while in a seaway is a super human feat!
Fresh water tanks on Sojourner were adequate at 100 gallons, but the Captain had lots of gallon jugs stowed all around the boat for backup in addition to dry food and canned goods. The Refer was pretty big, with cold food for the whole trip thankfully (only a few beers in there, one-per-crew-per-day to prevent mutiny! :) ) There was fresh fruit, but it started going bad about 6 days in, if I remember. Overall, Sojourner is a well built boat and can take a lotta punishment, but the crew took a beating for a few days in a Gale crossing the Gulf Stream (running off in 20 foot seas, 30+ knots of wind against the Gulf Stream current) and then the last 3 days beating into 20 knots of headwind and 8-10 foot seas trying to claw as much Easting as we could to fetch Tortola. As the video indicated, Sojourner is an older design with narrow walkways and lots of stowage. You end up wedging yourself against things when trying to accomplish almost everything below in an ocean going boat. As the tropical temperatures started to climb, down below Sojourner became hot and humid! All the hatches were closed to prevent shipping seawater. It's kinda hard trying to sleep in a hot and humid environment bucking about. Good ventilation should be important with Dorades or some mechanism to get fresh air into the cabin as much as possible without opening hatches. Trying to use the Head on Sojourner going upwind in heavy seas can be comical, if not down right dangerous! The Head needed to be completely hosed down in Tortola. The video alluded to this. Things like heat, humidity and Head smells can help fan the flames of sea sickness.

Communication is important for weather updates and for sanity on an extended Blue Water trip. We thought we had redundancy in our communications but... We were down to one of two SAT phones, and it worked sporadically. Dennis had installed a SSB transciever, but it couldn't be calibrated and was non-operational when we departed. We had a device that connected to a SAT phone to send and receive Email and weather maps on an IPad, but that failed after it flew across the cabin in the Gale. The Captain had to get verbal info from Andy (ARC 1500 Rally Committee) on what the weather was predicted to do and how to adjust. 
The one Autopilot on Sojourner could not hold her steady enough so we hand steered a lot in the big seas. Dennis later had it calibrated for better steering, but as the video stated, backups would be important and a good wind-vane mandatory IMHO. Hand steering for two of your 4 hour watch in rough conditions is extremely tiring...
Sojourner did not have control lines such as Halyards and reefing lines run to the cockpit. Myself and another crew had to venture to the mast at 2am on a pitch-black stormy night in 30+ knots of wind and 20 ft seas to douse the Main. We doused it because we couldn't figure out in the dark how to put the 4th reef in! With red headlamps for light almost all the Halyards and control lines look the same color! Try to rig your lines with different colors/patterns as much as possible so you don't have to guess at 2am whether you're unlocking the Main Halyard, the roller Jenny Halyard or the Solent Staysail Halyard or messing with the Spinnaker Halyard. Label, label label! Practice in the dark in as tough conditions as you can. Have plenty of points to clip in mounted around the boat.
We had a Satellite tracker on Sojourner so we could be tracked. We had an EPIRB for Sojourner, and myself and another crew had PLBs to light off in case of emergency. I now have a SPOT Satellite tracker in addition that I take along to send track positions and also to send custom messages at the push of a button to inform folks back home we're OK (and as a backup to my PLB if we need help).
WRT a C320 in the conditions I experienced in the ARC 1500, I wouldn't consider it. I've been in 30-40+ knots with 5-6 ft seas a few times in the Chesapeake. Going upwind in those conditions was tough going and off the wind, was a workout for just the few hours we were out. The autopilot was useless with puffs rounding us up and downwind, it took quick reaction and a lotta strength to muscle the Stern on top of a following wave to keep from broaching. I'd be afraid that the pressure on the Rudder would damage it severely...
Just some thoughts written down to consider if you like...
Best Regards,~g
Guy and Liz Smithsv PleiadesC320 #452Worton Creek, MD USA


    On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 07:53:57 AM EDT, Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 Graeme-

I think this video does a good job of answering some of the mail.  In the
end ... it's a balance of your wallet, comfort, safety, and of course...
style.

https://youtu.be/nCIG_LPcqu8

FWIW-

Troy Dunn
Hull #514

On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 11:46 PM Larry Frank <WindSwept at stx.rr.com> wrote:

> Graeme,
>
> What makes an offshore boat is a subject that has been debated at all
> yacht clubs and harbor bars for hundreds of years.  I won't get into that
> but will support the observations that a 320 will pound going to weather in
> ocean waves.  Maybe not so much in swells like you might encounter in the
> pacific, but definitely in the short choppy waves that are the norm in the
> Gulf of Mexico where I sail.
>
> No one mentioned how far they have sailed offshore.  I know my trips are
> not the longest but I have sailed 500+ miles from the coast of Texas to
> Veracruz Mexico in a race back in 2006.  I think Catalina Yachts used to
> have a spot on their website where significant cruises completed on
> Catalinas were logged.  You might want to see if it is still there.
>
> As far as the open transom, I think your concerns might be misplaced.
> When we purchased WindSwept, my wife liked that feature for swimming and
> boarding the dink.  I thought it was very poor design that would put the
> boat at risk in a large following sea.  I was wrong.  On one trip in the
> Gulf we were sailing in a large following sea with winds in the 25 kt
> range.  Of course it was dark, everything always seems to happen at night.
> We were watching in amazement as the big waves would come up behind the
> stern and the stern wound then rise up and the wave the passed under
> WindSwept.  Until one didn't.  It broke in the cockpit.  The cockpit filled
> to just where the first hatch board should have been.  The water then ran
> out the transom under the insert in just a few seconds.  It could never
> have drained that quickly through a more normal scupper arrangement.
> Take a look at the offshore racing monohulls in races like the Volvo.  They
> all have wide open transoms.  I now see it as a good thing.
>
> Larry
> WindSwept
> C320#246
>
> On 8/27/20, 11:49 AM, "C320-list on behalf of Graeme Clark" <
> c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com on behalf of cg at skyflyer.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>    Curious to know if anyone has sailed any significant distances
> offshore in a C320.
>
>    I recall reading somewhere that it’s “not an offshore boat” but I have
> no idea why, nor at what point you are considered to be offshore. I think
> it’s a bit more than just out of sight of land?
>
>    Similarly I don’t really uNderstand the phrase “blue water sailing”
> beyond the fact that if you’re doing it, you’ve got a good chance of waves
> breaking over the coachroof and pouring down the companionway if you’re
> foolish enough to leave it open!
>
>    Here in Britain the furthest I’ve gone is 110nm across the English
> Channel to France but I’d like to sail down to the Mediterranean one day
> (no, not IN one day!) which Means crossing the Bay of Biscay. 300nm
>    In some notoriously poor conditions if you’re unlucky Or the
> forecasters get it wrong!
>
>    Is that a foolish prospect in a C320?
>
>    Graeme
>    #366, 1996
>    Sent from my phone. Excuse typos!
>
>
>