[C320-list] Check valve

Wed Sep 2 14:23:57 PDT 2020

I know this is a controversial subject, but I have to disagree. I’ve used check valves on Rule bilge pumps for 15 years without a problem.

If you look at the tiny pump blades on the bottom of the Rule, you will see nothing large is going to get through there. Any flotsam is more likely to jam the Rule than jam the check valve. That would blow the fuse.

The problem with no check valve is that the hose contains a lot of water. It gurgles back into your bilge and will likely set off even a moderately raised pump as it sloshes around, unless you’re willing to let a couple of gallons of water stink up your bilge permanently.

I know many sailors who don’t use automatic pumps at all. The reality is that a small pump won’t stop your boat from sinking due to a serious leak, even if it’s running continuously. A two-inch hole, like a through hull, allows several thousand gallons an hour into the boat.

The standard Catalina pump is 250 or 500 gallons an hour in theory. More likely, a fraction of that due to the lift, etc. A Rule that fits into the bilge is 500 gallons an hour.

Switching the pump on manually when you arrive at the boat allows you to see how much water is getting into the bilge, which gives you early warning on faulty packing, a bad stuffing box hose or a leaky through hull. An automatic pump hides that until it’s really serious.

Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
Tierra Verde, Fl.
Dolphin Cruising Club of Tampa Bay

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Fishbust
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 4:18 PM
To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
Subject: [C320-list] Check valve

Chip, check valve would be a no-no for a bilge pump. If it sticks closed, no water can move. If it sticks or obstruction keeps it open, your cycle continues until your battery is dead and then you could wind up with an even bigger problem. 

Just raise the float switch. 

> On Sep 2, 2020, at 4:01 PM, c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com wrote:
> 
> Send C320-list mailing list submissions to
>    c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web browser, visit
>    http://lists.catalina320.com/listinfo.cgi/c320-list-catalina320.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    c320-list-owner at lists.catalina320.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of C320-list digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Frozen Compressor on Adler Barber Cold Machine (Doug Treff)
>   2. Re: Frozen Compressor on Adler Barber Cold Machine (Dave Hupe)
>   3. Bilge Pumps and Check Valves (Charles Martin)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2020 11:17:01 -0400
> From: "Doug Treff" <doug at treff.us>
> To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Frozen Compressor on Adler Barber Cold
>    Machine
> Message-ID: <08ef507e-77a4-4db3-90f7-462576a3937b at www.fastmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
> 
> Dave,
> 
> I've been eyeing the Nova Kool units too. The LT201-RT4 seems to have the same freezer box we currently have. Interested to hear if the RT6 will fit in a C320 fridge box.
> 
> --
> Doug Treff
> doug at treff.us
> 
>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Dave Hupe wrote:
>> In answer to the appreciated feedback so far, my fan was working fine, 
>> the thermostat was only set to 4, and the compressor body itself was 
>> not hot (I think it normally is very hot to the touch).?
>> The cold plate was completely covered with ice and in fact several 
>> items in the freezer bin were completely frozen solid.??
>> I definitely don't plan to throw money at it considering the old age.? 
>> I have taken note of a complete Nova Kool unit recommended by John 
>> Morrison (LT201-RT6) that is selling for $920 now at 
>> www.suremarineservice.com. A new complete Adler Barbour Cool Machine 
>> seems to be about $1500 now.
>> Dave Hupe
>> 1994 C320 #32
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
>> 
>>  On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:35 AM, Graeme Clark<cg at skyflyer.co.uk> 
>> wrote:   I?m no refrigeration expert but recently did a bit of reading 
>> prior to replacing my 1996 unit!
>> 
>> My I de standing is:-
>> 
>> If the system is set up correctly the entire evaporator cold plate in 
>> the cooler box should be cool/frosted but the return pipe to the 
>> compressor should not. If it is then that?s a sign that the system is 
>> overcharged with refrigerant
>> 
>> Conversely an undercharged system will show up because only a portion 
>> of the evaporator plate gets cold
>> 
>> The cooling effect is when the liquid refrigerant expands through a 
>> small orifice to become a gas
>> 
>> The compressor then compressed the gas which makes it very hot and the 
>> condenser cools the hot gas (with the aid of a fan) to return the 
>> refrigerant to a liquid and the cycle repeats
>> 
>> I struggle to see how lack of fan or other overheating would cause 
>> frosting on the compressor or condenser?
>> 
>> I would suspect a partial blockage of the circuit near the compressor 
>> and condenser creating a restriction and allowing the refrigerant to 
>> expand into a gas downstream of that restriction
>> 
>> I?m not sure how else you end up with frosting at the compressor end,? 
>> which creates considerable heat! 
>> 
>> But I?m no expert so happy to be schooled!
>> 
>> However I replaced my system (including evaporator) at a cost of under 
>> $1000. It?s an easy, although fiddly, job
>> 
>> The new unit draws 3amps max (variable speed so sometimes only 2.5) vs 
>> 6 amps on the old one
>> 
>> In my humble opinion I wouldn?t spend a cent on fixing your 1994 system 
>> as I suspect it will be the start of continual maintenance costs given 
>> its age. Bite the bullet and replace it if you can afford to do so! 
>> 
>> Graeme
>> #366
>> 1996
>> 
>> Sent from my phone. Excuse typos! 
>> 
>>> On 2 Sep 2020, at 13:04, islgirl3 at aol.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Dave,Also make sure the fan is working properly.
>>> RichBarbara Rita 897
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
>>> To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
>>> Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2020 8:49 pm
>>> Subject: [C320-list] Frozen Compressor on Adler Barber Cold Machine
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> Your question doesn?t show up in my email feed just on the site so I had to
>>> try to redo the subject line.
>>> 
>>> We have had this problem with a dehumidifier we use in the basement.? We
>>> have found that turning the dehumidifier down a little seems to help a lot
>>> to extend the useful life of the unit.
>>> 
>>> The typical cause of this problem is that your compressor is working harder
>>> than it was designed to do originally.? This can be because you have the
>>> fridge turned way up on a not so hot day so there is not enough? hot air
>>> blowing across the compressor , or because your compressor fan isn't
>>> blowing quite as? well as it used to, or you are starting to run low on
>>> refrigerant.
>>> 
>>> If this is your original unit and you literally have 26 years on a cold
>>> machine.? Wow!? You got a lot of miles on that baby, but...you are going
>>> to need a new unit sooner or later.? A recharge of your system may not be
>>> possible if it was an older refrigerant but that is something you could
>>> look into I suppose.
>>> 
>>> Good luck, if it's working for now, try knocking the temp back a little and
>>> see if that clears up the icing situation....or...put a fan down there to
>>> get more air circulation?
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> Troy Dunn
>>> Hull#514
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2020 16:13:05 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Dave Hupe <hoopdtwo at yahoo.com>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Frozen Compressor on Adler Barber Cold
>    Machine
> Message-ID: <1955561972.2176766.1599063185577 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Yes, I believe it was John Morrison or Graeme the installed the Nova Cool RT6, with the different freezer box, but on the aft not starboard wall.? I like the RT6? freezer box with the door, but likely still would go for the open compartment RT4 unit that closely matches what I have now.
> I went back to the boat today and tried it again after shutting it off completely yesterday. Everything seemed to work fine.? The box got cool all around very quickly, I could clearly hear hissing in the box.? The compressor and fan ran fine.? I shut it off and will try it again sometime soon for a longer period to see what happens.??
> I had a lot of ice built up on the freezer box that I had not defrosted before.? I wonder if defrosting somewhat frequently is beneficial and possibly might change the compressor freezing I? inexperienced???
> Dave Hupe1994 C320 #32
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>  On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 11:17 AM, Doug Treff<doug at treff.us> wrote:   Dave,
> 
> I've been eyeing the Nova Kool units too. The LT201-RT4 seems to have the same freezer box we currently have. Interested to hear if the RT6 will fit in a C320 fridge box.
> 
> --
> Doug Treff
> doug at treff.us
> 
>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Dave Hupe wrote:
>> In answer to the appreciated feedback so far, my fan was working fine, 
>> the thermostat was only set to 4, and the compressor body itself was 
>> not hot (I think it normally is very hot to the touch).?
>> The cold plate was completely covered with ice and in fact several 
>> items in the freezer bin were completely frozen solid.??
>> I definitely don't plan to throw money at it considering the old age.? 
>> I have taken note of a complete Nova Kool unit recommended by John 
>> Morrison (LT201-RT6) that is selling for $920 now at 
>> www.suremarineservice.com. A new complete Adler Barbour Cool Machine 
>> seems to be about $1500 now.
>> Dave Hupe
>> 1994 C320 #32
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
>> ? 
>> ? On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:35 AM, Graeme Clark<cg at skyflyer.co.uk> 
>> wrote:? I?m no refrigeration expert but recently did a bit of reading 
>> prior to replacing my 1996 unit!
>> 
>> My I de standing is:-
>> 
>> If the system is set up correctly the entire evaporator cold plate in 
>> the cooler box should be cool/frosted but the return pipe to the 
>> compressor should not. If it is then that?s a sign that the system is 
>> overcharged with refrigerant
>> 
>> Conversely an undercharged system will show up because only a portion 
>> of the evaporator plate gets cold
>> 
>> The cooling effect is when the liquid refrigerant expands through a 
>> small orifice to become a gas
>> 
>> The compressor then compressed the gas which makes it very hot and the 
>> condenser cools the hot gas (with the aid of a fan) to return the 
>> refrigerant to a liquid and the cycle repeats
>> 
>> I struggle to see how lack of fan or other overheating would cause 
>> frosting on the compressor or condenser?
>> 
>> I would suspect a partial blockage of the circuit near the compressor 
>> and condenser creating a restriction and allowing the refrigerant to 
>> expand into a gas downstream of that restriction
>> 
>> I?m not sure how else you end up with frosting at the compressor end,? 
>> which creates considerable heat! 
>> 
>> But I?m no expert so happy to be schooled!
>> 
>> However I replaced my system (including evaporator) at a cost of under 
>> $1000. It?s an easy, although fiddly, job
>> 
>> The new unit draws 3amps max (variable speed so sometimes only 2.5) vs 
>> 6 amps on the old one
>> 
>> In my humble opinion I wouldn?t spend a cent on fixing your 1994 system 
>> as I suspect it will be the start of continual maintenance costs given 
>> its age. Bite the bullet and replace it if you can afford to do so! 
>> 
>> Graeme
>> #366
>> 1996
>> 
>> Sent from my phone. Excuse typos! 
>> 
>>> On 2 Sep 2020, at 13:04, islgirl3 at aol.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Dave,Also make sure the fan is working properly.
>>> RichBarbara Rita 897
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
>>> To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
>>> Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2020 8:49 pm
>>> Subject: [C320-list] Frozen Compressor on Adler Barber Cold Machine
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> Your question doesn?t show up in my email feed just on the site so I had to
>>> try to redo the subject line.
>>> 
>>> We have had this problem with a dehumidifier we use in the basement.? We
>>> have found that turning the dehumidifier down a little seems to help a lot
>>> to extend the useful life of the unit.
>>> 
>>> The typical cause of this problem is that your compressor is working harder
>>> than it was designed to do originally.? This can be because you have the
>>> fridge turned way up on a not so hot day so there is not enough? hot air
>>> blowing across the compressor , or because your compressor fan isn't
>>> blowing quite as? well as it used to, or you are starting to run low on
>>> refrigerant.
>>> 
>>> If this is your original unit and you literally have 26 years on a cold
>>> machine.? Wow!? You got a lot of miles on that baby, but...you are going
>>> to need a new unit sooner or later.? A recharge of your system may not be
>>> possible if it was an older refrigerant but that is something you could
>>> look into I suppose.
>>> 
>>> Good luck, if it's working for now, try knocking the temp back a little and
>>> see if that clears up the icing situation....or...put a fan down there to
>>> get more air circulation?
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> Troy Dunn
>>> Hull#514
>> ? 
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2020 15:53:40 -0400
> From: Charles Martin <chiprmartin at gmail.com>
> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> Subject: [C320-list] Bilge Pumps and Check Valves
> Message-ID:
>    <CAHQFa8H7v+NAKYAiFd1c2XWXDKNcL7473WrZQQFTiz6cikG2jg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Dear Shipmates:
> 
> My bilge pump recently failed, and I have done a quick and dirty fix while
> I am waiting for a new pump from Catalina Direct (cheaper but less powerful
> than the closest model from West Marine or Defender).
> 
> My question is:  the small rule pump I have installed as a temp fix doesn't
> sit as low as the intake hose did for the factory installed pump; and as a
> result, after it pumps out any water in the bilge and stops, a lot of water
> comes back into the bilge from the hose leading up to the above-water
> through-hull.  When that happens, the float switch rises, the pump turns on
> again, and tries once more to drop the level of the water.  This happens
> over and over--an infinite do loop.  I could just raise the float switch,
> but I'm wondering if a check-valve in the line might be a more elegant
> solution?  Did the diaphram pump installed originally have a built-in check
> valve?  Any thoughts?
> 
> Best,
> Chip Martin
> *Bonaventure* -- Sail #767
> (410) 231-0199
> chiprmartin at gmail.com
> 
> 
> End of C320-list Digest, Vol 3820, Issue 2
> ******************************************