[C320-list] Check valve

Wed Sep 2 17:50:24 PDT 2020

What great feedback, Jack, John and Warren.  All interesting stuff.  I
watch this chatter continuously and am amazed at the depth and breadth of
practical knowledge among the C320 fleet.  Thanks!

Best,
Chip Martin
*Bonaventure* -- Sail # 767
(410) 231-0199
chiprmartin at gmail.com

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 5:24 PM Jack Brennan <jackbrennan at bellsouth.net>
wrote:

> I know this is a controversial subject, but I have to disagree. I’ve used
> check valves on Rule bilge pumps for 15 years without a problem.
>
> If you look at the tiny pump blades on the bottom of the Rule, you will
> see nothing large is going to get through there. Any flotsam is more likely
> to jam the Rule than jam the check valve. That would blow the fuse.
>
> The problem with no check valve is that the hose contains a lot of water.
> It gurgles back into your bilge and will likely set off even a moderately
> raised pump as it sloshes around, unless you’re willing to let a couple of
> gallons of water stink up your bilge permanently.
>
> I know many sailors who don’t use automatic pumps at all. The reality is
> that a small pump won’t stop your boat from sinking due to a serious leak,
> even if it’s running continuously. A two-inch hole, like a through hull,
> allows several thousand gallons an hour into the boat.
>
> The standard Catalina pump is 250 or 500 gallons an hour in theory. More
> likely, a fraction of that due to the lift, etc. A Rule that fits into the
> bilge is 500 gallons an hour.
>
> Switching the pump on manually when you arrive at the boat allows you to
> see how much water is getting into the bilge, which gives you early warning
> on faulty packing, a bad stuffing box hose or a leaky through hull. An
> automatic pump hides that until it’s really serious.
>
> Jack Brennan
> Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
> Tierra Verde, Fl.
> Dolphin Cruising Club of Tampa Bay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Fishbust
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 4:18 PM
> To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> Subject: [C320-list] Check valve
>
> Chip, check valve would be a no-no for a bilge pump. If it sticks closed,
> no water can move. If it sticks or obstruction keeps it open, your cycle
> continues until your battery is dead and then you could wind up with an
> even bigger problem.
>
> Just raise the float switch.
>
> > On Sep 2, 2020, at 4:01 PM, c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com
> wrote:
> >
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> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: Frozen Compressor on Adler Barber Cold Machine (Doug Treff)
> >   2. Re: Frozen Compressor on Adler Barber Cold Machine (Dave Hupe)
> >   3. Bilge Pumps and Check Valves (Charles Martin)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2020 11:17:01 -0400
> > From: "Doug Treff" <doug at treff.us>
> > To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Frozen Compressor on Adler Barber Cold
> >    Machine
> > Message-ID: <08ef507e-77a4-4db3-90f7-462576a3937b at www.fastmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > I've been eyeing the Nova Kool units too. The LT201-RT4 seems to have
> the same freezer box we currently have. Interested to hear if the RT6 will
> fit in a C320 fridge box.
> >
> > --
> > Doug Treff
> > doug at treff.us
> >
> >> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Dave Hupe wrote:
> >> In answer to the appreciated feedback so far, my fan was working fine,
> >> the thermostat was only set to 4, and the compressor body itself was
> >> not hot (I think it normally is very hot to the touch).?
> >> The cold plate was completely covered with ice and in fact several
> >> items in the freezer bin were completely frozen solid.??
> >> I definitely don't plan to throw money at it considering the old age.?
> >> I have taken note of a complete Nova Kool unit recommended by John
> >> Morrison (LT201-RT6) that is selling for $920 now at
> >> www.suremarineservice.com. A new complete Adler Barbour Cool Machine
> >> seems to be about $1500 now.
> >> Dave Hupe
> >> 1994 C320 #32
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >>
> >>  On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:35 AM, Graeme Clark<cg at skyflyer.co.uk>
> >> wrote:   I?m no refrigeration expert but recently did a bit of reading
> >> prior to replacing my 1996 unit!
> >>
> >> My I de standing is:-
> >>
> >> If the system is set up correctly the entire evaporator cold plate in
> >> the cooler box should be cool/frosted but the return pipe to the
> >> compressor should not. If it is then that?s a sign that the system is
> >> overcharged with refrigerant
> >>
> >> Conversely an undercharged system will show up because only a portion
> >> of the evaporator plate gets cold
> >>
> >> The cooling effect is when the liquid refrigerant expands through a
> >> small orifice to become a gas
> >>
> >> The compressor then compressed the gas which makes it very hot and the
> >> condenser cools the hot gas (with the aid of a fan) to return the
> >> refrigerant to a liquid and the cycle repeats
> >>
> >> I struggle to see how lack of fan or other overheating would cause
> >> frosting on the compressor or condenser?
> >>
> >> I would suspect a partial blockage of the circuit near the compressor
> >> and condenser creating a restriction and allowing the refrigerant to
> >> expand into a gas downstream of that restriction
> >>
> >> I?m not sure how else you end up with frosting at the compressor end,?
> >> which creates considerable heat!
> >>
> >> But I?m no expert so happy to be schooled!
> >>
> >> However I replaced my system (including evaporator) at a cost of under
> >> $1000. It?s an easy, although fiddly, job
> >>
> >> The new unit draws 3amps max (variable speed so sometimes only 2.5) vs
> >> 6 amps on the old one
> >>
> >> In my humble opinion I wouldn?t spend a cent on fixing your 1994 system
> >> as I suspect it will be the start of continual maintenance costs given
> >> its age. Bite the bullet and replace it if you can afford to do so!
> >>
> >> Graeme
> >> #366
> >> 1996
> >>
> >> Sent from my phone. Excuse typos!
> >>
> >>> On 2 Sep 2020, at 13:04, islgirl3 at aol.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?Dave,Also make sure the fan is working properly.
> >>> RichBarbara Rita 897
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
> >>> To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
> >>> Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2020 8:49 pm
> >>> Subject: [C320-list] Frozen Compressor on Adler Barber Cold Machine
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>> Your question doesn?t show up in my email feed just on the site so I
> had to
> >>> try to redo the subject line.
> >>>
> >>> We have had this problem with a dehumidifier we use in the basement.?
> We
> >>> have found that turning the dehumidifier down a little seems to help a
> lot
> >>> to extend the useful life of the unit.
> >>>
> >>> The typical cause of this problem is that your compressor is working
> harder
> >>> than it was designed to do originally.? This can be because you have
> the
> >>> fridge turned way up on a not so hot day so there is not enough? hot
> air
> >>> blowing across the compressor , or because your compressor fan isn't
> >>> blowing quite as? well as it used to, or you are starting to run low on
> >>> refrigerant.
> >>>
> >>> If this is your original unit and you literally have 26 years on a cold
> >>> machine.? Wow!? You got a lot of miles on that baby, but...you are
> going
> >>> to need a new unit sooner or later.? A recharge of your system may not
> be
> >>> possible if it was an older refrigerant but that is something you could
> >>> look into I suppose.
> >>>
> >>> Good luck, if it's working for now, try knocking the temp back a
> little and
> >>> see if that clears up the icing situation....or...put a fan down there
> to
> >>> get more air circulation?
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>> Troy Dunn
> >>> Hull#514
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2020 16:13:05 +0000 (UTC)
> > From: Dave Hupe <hoopdtwo at yahoo.com>
> > To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Frozen Compressor on Adler Barber Cold
> >    Machine
> > Message-ID: <1955561972.2176766.1599063185577 at mail.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Yes, I believe it was John Morrison or Graeme the installed the Nova
> Cool RT6, with the different freezer box, but on the aft not starboard
> wall.? I like the RT6? freezer box with the door, but likely still would go
> for the open compartment RT4 unit that closely matches what I have now.
> > I went back to the boat today and tried it again after shutting it off
> completely yesterday. Everything seemed to work fine.? The box got cool all
> around very quickly, I could clearly hear hissing in the box.? The
> compressor and fan ran fine.? I shut it off and will try it again sometime
> soon for a longer period to see what happens.??
> > I had a lot of ice built up on the freezer box that I had not defrosted
> before.? I wonder if defrosting somewhat frequently is beneficial and
> possibly might change the compressor freezing I? inexperienced???
> > Dave Hupe1994 C320 #32
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >
> >  On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 11:17 AM, Doug Treff<doug at treff.us> wrote:
>  Dave,
> >
> > I've been eyeing the Nova Kool units too. The LT201-RT4 seems to have
> the same freezer box we currently have. Interested to hear if the RT6 will
> fit in a C320 fridge box.
> >
> > --
> > Doug Treff
> > doug at treff.us
> >
> >> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Dave Hupe wrote:
> >> In answer to the appreciated feedback so far, my fan was working fine,
> >> the thermostat was only set to 4, and the compressor body itself was
> >> not hot (I think it normally is very hot to the touch).?
> >> The cold plate was completely covered with ice and in fact several
> >> items in the freezer bin were completely frozen solid.??
> >> I definitely don't plan to throw money at it considering the old age.?
> >> I have taken note of a complete Nova Kool unit recommended by John
> >> Morrison (LT201-RT6) that is selling for $920 now at
> >> www.suremarineservice.com. A new complete Adler Barbour Cool Machine
> >> seems to be about $1500 now.
> >> Dave Hupe
> >> 1994 C320 #32
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >> ?
> >> ? On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:35 AM, Graeme Clark<cg at skyflyer.co.uk>
> >> wrote:? I?m no refrigeration expert but recently did a bit of reading
> >> prior to replacing my 1996 unit!
> >>
> >> My I de standing is:-
> >>
> >> If the system is set up correctly the entire evaporator cold plate in
> >> the cooler box should be cool/frosted but the return pipe to the
> >> compressor should not. If it is then that?s a sign that the system is
> >> overcharged with refrigerant
> >>
> >> Conversely an undercharged system will show up because only a portion
> >> of the evaporator plate gets cold
> >>
> >> The cooling effect is when the liquid refrigerant expands through a
> >> small orifice to become a gas
> >>
> >> The compressor then compressed the gas which makes it very hot and the
> >> condenser cools the hot gas (with the aid of a fan) to return the
> >> refrigerant to a liquid and the cycle repeats
> >>
> >> I struggle to see how lack of fan or other overheating would cause
> >> frosting on the compressor or condenser?
> >>
> >> I would suspect a partial blockage of the circuit near the compressor
> >> and condenser creating a restriction and allowing the refrigerant to
> >> expand into a gas downstream of that restriction
> >>
> >> I?m not sure how else you end up with frosting at the compressor end,?
> >> which creates considerable heat!
> >>
> >> But I?m no expert so happy to be schooled!
> >>
> >> However I replaced my system (including evaporator) at a cost of under
> >> $1000. It?s an easy, although fiddly, job
> >>
> >> The new unit draws 3amps max (variable speed so sometimes only 2.5) vs
> >> 6 amps on the old one
> >>
> >> In my humble opinion I wouldn?t spend a cent on fixing your 1994 system
> >> as I suspect it will be the start of continual maintenance costs given
> >> its age. Bite the bullet and replace it if you can afford to do so!
> >>
> >> Graeme
> >> #366
> >> 1996
> >>
> >> Sent from my phone. Excuse typos!
> >>
> >>> On 2 Sep 2020, at 13:04, islgirl3 at aol.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?Dave,Also make sure the fan is working properly.
> >>> RichBarbara Rita 897
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
> >>> To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
> >>> Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2020 8:49 pm
> >>> Subject: [C320-list] Frozen Compressor on Adler Barber Cold Machine
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>> Your question doesn?t show up in my email feed just on the site so I
> had to
> >>> try to redo the subject line.
> >>>
> >>> We have had this problem with a dehumidifier we use in the basement.?
> We
> >>> have found that turning the dehumidifier down a little seems to help a
> lot
> >>> to extend the useful life of the unit.
> >>>
> >>> The typical cause of this problem is that your compressor is working
> harder
> >>> than it was designed to do originally.? This can be because you have
> the
> >>> fridge turned way up on a not so hot day so there is not enough? hot
> air
> >>> blowing across the compressor , or because your compressor fan isn't
> >>> blowing quite as? well as it used to, or you are starting to run low on
> >>> refrigerant.
> >>>
> >>> If this is your original unit and you literally have 26 years on a cold
> >>> machine.? Wow!? You got a lot of miles on that baby, but...you are
> going
> >>> to need a new unit sooner or later.? A recharge of your system may not
> be
> >>> possible if it was an older refrigerant but that is something you could
> >>> look into I suppose.
> >>>
> >>> Good luck, if it's working for now, try knocking the temp back a
> little and
> >>> see if that clears up the icing situation....or...put a fan down there
> to
> >>> get more air circulation?
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>> Troy Dunn
> >>> Hull#514
> >> ?
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2020 15:53:40 -0400
> > From: Charles Martin <chiprmartin at gmail.com>
> > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > Subject: [C320-list] Bilge Pumps and Check Valves
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CAHQFa8H7v+NAKYAiFd1c2XWXDKNcL7473WrZQQFTiz6cikG2jg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Dear Shipmates:
> >
> > My bilge pump recently failed, and I have done a quick and dirty fix
> while
> > I am waiting for a new pump from Catalina Direct (cheaper but less
> powerful
> > than the closest model from West Marine or Defender).
> >
> > My question is:  the small rule pump I have installed as a temp fix
> doesn't
> > sit as low as the intake hose did for the factory installed pump; and as
> a
> > result, after it pumps out any water in the bilge and stops, a lot of
> water
> > comes back into the bilge from the hose leading up to the above-water
> > through-hull.  When that happens, the float switch rises, the pump turns
> on
> > again, and tries once more to drop the level of the water.  This happens
> > over and over--an infinite do loop.  I could just raise the float switch,
> > but I'm wondering if a check-valve in the line might be a more elegant
> > solution?  Did the diaphram pump installed originally have a built-in
> check
> > valve?  Any thoughts?
> >
> > Best,
> > Chip Martin
> > *Bonaventure* -- Sail #767
> > (410) 231-0199
> > chiprmartin at gmail.com
> >
> >
> > End of C320-list Digest, Vol 3820, Issue 2
> > ******************************************
>
>
>