[C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 3
Joe M
smith.blazer.72 at gmail.com
Wed Dec 8 07:21:39 PST 2021
When I completely rewired my last boat, twin engine, 4 batts, 2 banks, all
the battery grounds had to be tied together for everything to work right.
Joe 2002 C320 hull #902
On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 10:09 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> There is a small compartment forward of the battery compartments. I
> connected the negative terminal of the starting battery to one of the main
> negative terminals of the golf batteries in series, located about one foot
> away that is the same terminal that is a negative to the windlass.
> To answer another question. I have never used the windlass with this
> battery and it has stayed on a 3 phase modern battery charger so the charge
> status is optimal
>
> Bob
>
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:08 PM <c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Send C320-list mailing list submissions to
> > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web browser, visit
> >
> > http://lists.catalina320.com/listinfo.cgi/c320-list-catalina320.com
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > c320-list-owner at lists.catalina320.com
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of C320-list digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2 (Bob Hoyt)
> > 2. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (Bill Culbertson)
> > 3. Re: Fender Holders (ptormey at 4square.net)
> > 4. Re: C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2 (Jeff Hare)
> > 5. Re: C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2 (Jack Brennan)
> > 6. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (Troy Dunn)
> > 7. Re: C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2 (Troy Dunn)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 15:56:50 -0600
> > From: Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com>
> > To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAE9GL2=2fbJuqU+SS-bt=
> > JXa2aRvK+eJrWYN1tZRrExB3Hp4ug at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > re: Inadequate starting battery
> >
> > Thanks for your input. This Duralast DP-DL battery is a starting battery.
> > This week I will check all connections and see if I can find any
> > explanation for the inadequate power. Based on forum comments I don't
> think
> > I will proceed with larger gauge wire or a larger group battery until I
> am
> > satisfied that there is no other explanation
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 3:18 PM <c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Send C320-list mailing list submissions to
> > > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web browser, visit
> > >
> > > http://lists.catalina320.com/listinfo.cgi/c320-list-catalina320.com
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > c320-list-owner at lists.catalina320.com
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of C320-list digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (P.F. Ross)
> > > 2. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (Jeff Hare)
> > > 3. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (P.F. Ross)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 14:36:27 -0600
> > > From: "P.F. Ross" <pfrstl at gmail.com>
> > > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <
> > > CADNKO4A+cvJTac443xQL4RtpLSTKhM+cCSfvOLMWBCJGYYtmhQ at mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had limited
> > > sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two nights on the
> > hook
> > > somewhere. I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of not
> > being
> > > able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my ownership,
> > having
> > > owned the boat since new). Admittedly, I had no battery condition
> > monitor
> > > at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> > >
> > > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I looked
> > into
> > > upgrading my electrical storage options. There are tons of resources
> > > online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart batteries,
> > Trojan
> > > T-105s in my case.
> > >
> > > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> > >
> > > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery monitor
> > and
> > > automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications for an "always
> > > hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly lacking as OE, at
> least
> > > on my old boat). I have yet to upgrade my alternator and engine
> charging
> > > system, but so far my setup allows me to spend three nights out without
> > any
> > > worry. It also helps that I have changed all lighting to LED.
> > >
> > > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to others
> > on
> > > this list who have come before me.
> > >
> > > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for me
> to
> > > man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather than 2
> > > ginormous ones. Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Frank Ross
> > > Beta Wave #206
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more thing
> to
> > > keep
> > > > in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar 3GM30F... There is
> a
> > > > compression release on top of each cylinder. Pulling one back before
> > > > cranking the motor makes it turn over much easier. Then releasing it
> > > once
> > > > the flywheel has some momentum will make for an easier start. And
> the
> > > more
> > > > cylinders you do that with, the easier it gets. I've often thought
> of
> > > > making linkage from a straight piece of metal that I could tie a line
> > to
> > > it
> > > > in case I ever had to do that alone from the helm. They are a
> > throwback
> > > > from when you could hand start the engines with a crank. I did it a
> > lot
> > > on
> > > > single & two cylinder Yanmars with no battery when I lived in the
> > Amazon
> > > > region of Brazil.
> > > >
> > > > Hans Dose
> > > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> > things
> > > > are
> > > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a
> wire
> > > > gauge
> > > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> > requirement,
> > > > > recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our 1998 has a Yanmar
> > > 3GM30F
> > > > > and starting surge is 283A. The start surge is only for a second
> or
> > > two
> > > > > and once the engine kicks up, alternator starts feeding back. Our
> > setup
> > > > is
> > > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> > always
> > > > > start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency start.
> > > > >
> > > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > > suffice.
> > > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > > condition.
> > > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight wobble
> > will
> > > > > decrease output). If I were facing this, I would start by the
> > simplest
> > > > and
> > > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of
> the
> > > > > starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the starting
> > > battery.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as a
> > > > > dedicated
> > > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt golf
> > cart
> > > > > > batteries in series). I installed it just forward of the
> starboard
> > > > > battery
> > > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> > thought
> > > > they
> > > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm
> engine,
> > > the
> > > > > > motor will barely turn over. With the battery selector on all, it
> > > > starts
> > > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> > change
> > > > the
> > > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the switch
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 15:42:01 -0500
> > > From: "Jeff Hare" <Catalina at thehares.com>
> > > To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > > Message-ID: <020b01d7ebaa$e39d1810$aad74830$@thehares.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >
> > > Frank,
> > > I think you meant a pair of 4D batteries, right?
> > > 8D's don't fit in the C320 battery compartment. They're just a bit too
> > > wide and tall. I tried every possible way back in the day to modify
> that
> > > space to hold them but to no avail.
> > >
> > > -Jeff
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of
> > > P.F. Ross
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 3:36 PM
> > > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had limited
> > > sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two nights on the
> > hook
> > > somewhere. I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of not
> > being
> > > able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my ownership,
> > having
> > > owned the boat since new). Admittedly, I had no battery condition
> > monitor
> > > at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> > >
> > > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I looked
> > > into upgrading my electrical storage options. There are tons of
> > resources
> > > online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart batteries,
> > Trojan
> > > T-105s in my case.
> > >
> > > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> > >
> > > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery monitor
> > > and automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications for an
> > "always
> > > hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly lacking as OE, at
> least
> > > on my old boat). I have yet to upgrade my alternator and engine
> charging
> > > system, but so far my setup allows me to spend three nights out without
> > any
> > > worry. It also helps that I have changed all lighting to LED.
> > >
> > > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to others
> > on
> > > this list who have come before me.
> > >
> > > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for me
> to
> > > man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather than 2
> > > ginormous ones. Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Frank Ross
> > > Beta Wave #206
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more thing
> to
> > > > keep in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar 3GM30F...
> There
> > > > is a compression release on top of each cylinder. Pulling one back
> > > > before cranking the motor makes it turn over much easier. Then
> > > > releasing it once the flywheel has some momentum will make for an
> > > > easier start. And the more cylinders you do that with, the easier it
> > > > gets. I've often thought of making linkage from a straight piece of
> > > > metal that I could tie a line to it in case I ever had to do that
> > > > alone from the helm. They are a throwback from when you could hand
> > > > start the engines with a crank. I did it a lot on single & two
> > > > cylinder Yanmars with no battery when I lived in the Amazon region of
> > > Brazil.
> > > >
> > > > Hans Dose
> > > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> > > > > things
> > > > are
> > > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a
> > > > > wire
> > > > gauge
> > > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> > > > > requirement, recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our 1998
> > > > > has a Yanmar 3GM30F and starting surge is 283A. The start surge is
> > > > > only for a second or two and once the engine kicks up, alternator
> > > > > starts feeding back. Our setup
> > > > is
> > > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> > > > > always start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency
> start.
> > > > >
> > > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > > suffice.
> > > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > > condition.
> > > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight wobble
> > > > > will decrease output). If I were facing this, I would start by the
> > > > > simplest
> > > > and
> > > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of
> the
> > > > > starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the starting
> > > battery.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as a
> > > > > dedicated
> > > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt golf
> > > > > > cart batteries in series). I installed it just forward of the
> > > > > > starboard
> > > > > battery
> > > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> > > > > > thought
> > > > they
> > > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm
> engine,
> > > > > > the motor will barely turn over. With the battery selector on
> all,
> > > > > > it
> > > > starts
> > > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> > > > > > change
> > > > the
> > > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the switch
> > > > > > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 14:43:58 -0600
> > > From: "P.F. Ross" <pfrstl at gmail.com>
> > > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <
> > > CADNKO4DgPPvB6uR+WOo7CnzRuHKzUcMgM03hi7HzgLypN8733Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >
> > > D'Oh!
> > >
> > > Yes, 4D! The ones that originally came in my boat!
> > >
> > > Frank
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 2:42 PM Jeff Hare <Catalina at thehares.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Frank,
> > > > I think you meant a pair of 4D batteries, right?
> > > > 8D's don't fit in the C320 battery compartment. They're just a bit
> too
> > > > wide and tall. I tried every possible way back in the day to modify
> > that
> > > > space to hold them but to no avail.
> > > >
> > > > -Jeff
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf
> Of
> > > > P.F. Ross
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 3:36 PM
> > > > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > > >
> > > > Joe,
> > > >
> > > > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had
> limited
> > > > sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two nights on the
> > > hook
> > > > somewhere. I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of not
> > > being
> > > > able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my ownership,
> > > having
> > > > owned the boat since new). Admittedly, I had no battery condition
> > > monitor
> > > > at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> > > >
> > > > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I
> looked
> > > > into upgrading my electrical storage options. There are tons of
> > > resources
> > > > online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart batteries,
> > > Trojan
> > > > T-105s in my case.
> > > >
> > > > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> > > >
> > > > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery
> monitor
> > > > and automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications for an
> > > "always
> > > > hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly lacking as OE, at
> > least
> > > > on my old boat). I have yet to upgrade my alternator and engine
> > charging
> > > > system, but so far my setup allows me to spend three nights out
> without
> > > any
> > > > worry. It also helps that I have changed all lighting to LED.
> > > >
> > > > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to
> others
> > > on
> > > > this list who have come before me.
> > > >
> > > > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for me
> > to
> > > > man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather than 2
> > > > ginormous ones. Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Frank Ross
> > > > Beta Wave #206
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more thing
> > to
> > > > > keep in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar 3GM30F...
> > There
> > > > > is a compression release on top of each cylinder. Pulling one back
> > > > > before cranking the motor makes it turn over much easier. Then
> > > > > releasing it once the flywheel has some momentum will make for an
> > > > > easier start. And the more cylinders you do that with, the easier
> it
> > > > > gets. I've often thought of making linkage from a straight piece
> of
> > > > > metal that I could tie a line to it in case I ever had to do that
> > > > > alone from the helm. They are a throwback from when you could hand
> > > > > start the engines with a crank. I did it a lot on single & two
> > > > > cylinder Yanmars with no battery when I lived in the Amazon region
> of
> > > > Brazil.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hans Dose
> > > > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Bob,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> > > > > > things
> > > > > are
> > > > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a
> > > > > > wire
> > > > > gauge
> > > > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> > > > > > requirement, recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our
> 1998
> > > > > > has a Yanmar 3GM30F and starting surge is 283A. The start surge
> is
> > > > > > only for a second or two and once the engine kicks up, alternator
> > > > > > starts feeding back. Our setup
> > > > > is
> > > > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> > > > > > always start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency
> > start.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > > > suffice.
> > > > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > > > condition.
> > > > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight
> wobble
> > > > > > will decrease output). If I were facing this, I would start by
> the
> > > > > > simplest
> > > > > and
> > > > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of
> > the
> > > > > > starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the starting
> > > > battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as
> a
> > > > > > dedicated
> > > > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt golf
> > > > > > > cart batteries in series). I installed it just forward of the
> > > > > > > starboard
> > > > > > battery
> > > > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> > > > > > > thought
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm
> > engine,
> > > > > > > the motor will barely turn over. With the battery selector on
> > all,
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > starts
> > > > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> > > > > > > change
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the
> switch
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > End of C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> > > ******************************************
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> >
> > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> >
> > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> >
> > *Richmond, VA*
> >
> >
> > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> >
> > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > rehoyt at gmail.com
> >
> > Cell: 850-384-5235
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 22:27:18 +0000 (UTC)
> > From: Bill Culbertson <billculb_a2 at yahoo.com>
> > To: "c320-list at catalina320.com" <c320-list at catalina320.com>,
> > "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > Message-ID: <91969259.762073.1638916038849 at mail.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > I hear you re: 4D =?ginormous.? My Lifeline 4DL's are needing
> replacement
> > next spring.? I got a whopping 13 years out of them (and yes I know they
> > are not cheap but they are indestructible).? They weigh an impressive 135
> > pounds apiece.? I plan to hire a couple of 25 year olds to schlep the new
> > ones aboard and schlep the old ones into my car (for core credit back
> home).
> > ?-bill
> > C320IA Secretary/TreasurerHarmony #859
> > On Tuesday, December 7, 2021, 03:36:46 PM EST, P.F. Ross <
> > pfrstl at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had limited
> > sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two nights on the
> hook
> > somewhere.? I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of not
> being
> > able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my ownership,
> having
> > owned the boat since new).? Admittedly, I had no battery condition
> monitor
> > at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> >
> > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I looked
> into
> > upgrading my electrical storage options.? There are tons of resources
> > online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart batteries,
> Trojan
> > T-105s in my case.
> >
> > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> >
> > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery monitor
> and
> > automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications for an "always
> > hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly lacking as OE, at least
> > on my old boat).? I have yet to upgrade my alternator and engine charging
> > system, but so far my setup allows me to spend three nights out without
> any
> > worry.? It also helps that I have changed all lighting to LED.
> >
> > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to others
> on
> > this list who have come before me.
> >
> > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for me to
> > man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather than 2
> > ginormous ones.? Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Frank Ross
> > Beta Wave #206
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more thing to
> > keep
> > > in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar 3GM30F... There is a
> > > compression release on top of each cylinder.? Pulling one back before
> > > cranking the motor makes it turn over much easier.? Then releasing it
> > once
> > > the flywheel has some momentum will make for an easier start.? And the
> > more
> > > cylinders you do that with, the easier it gets.? I've often thought of
> > > making linkage from a straight piece of metal that I could tie a line
> to
> > it
> > > in case I ever had to do that alone from the helm.? They are a
> throwback
> > > from when you could hand start the engines with a crank.? I did it a
> lot
> > on
> > > single? & two cylinder Yanmars with no battery when I lived in the
> Amazon
> > > region of Brazil.
> > >
> > > Hans Dose
> > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Bob,
> > > >
> > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> things
> > > are
> > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a wire
> > > gauge
> > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> requirement,
> > > > recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our 1998 has a Yanmar
> > 3GM30F
> > > > and starting surge is 283A.? The start surge is only for a second or
> > two
> > > > and once the engine kicks up, alternator starts feeding back. Our
> setup
> > > is
> > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> always
> > > > start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency start.
> > > >
> > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > suffice.
> > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > condition.
> > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight wobble
> will
> > > > decrease output).? If I were facing this, I would start by the
> simplest
> > > and
> > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of the
> > > > starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the starting
> > battery.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as a
> > > > dedicated
> > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt golf
> cart
> > > > > batteries in series). I installed it just forward of the starboard
> > > > battery
> > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> thought
> > > they
> > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm engine,
> > the
> > > > > motor will barely turn over. With the battery selector on all, it
> > > starts
> > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> change
> > > the
> > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the switch
> to
> > > the
> > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > >
> > > > > InformaticsEducation.org? <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 17:57:46 -0500
> > From: <ptormey at 4square.net>
> > To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fender Holders
> > Message-ID: <00de01d7ebbd$da3b88c0$8eb29a40$@4square.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I just tie the ends of two fenders together at the right length for them
> > to be thrown around two stations and hang at the right level.
> >
> > Pat Tormey
> > Blue Skies s/v
> > Newport, RI USA
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of
> > Tom Grass
> > Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 10:02 PM
> > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > Cc: Tracy Grass <tracy.grass at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [C320-list] Fender Holders
> >
> > When the weather gets warmer once again we will be leaving the dock for
> > future adventures. Every once in a while Bucket List comes a bit too
> close
> > to upright posts on the docks which might catch one or more of the
> > suspended fenders on that side of the hull.
> >
> > What is the opinion of this group - the best kind / brand of fender
> holder
> > which will securely hold the fender - BUT - if grabbed by a dock based
> > obstacle will give away before any damage occurs to the stanchions or
> > lifeloines?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom Grass
> > s/v Bucket List
> > 2008 Catalina 320 MK II
> > # 1135
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 18:31:12 -0500
> > From: "Jeff Hare" <Catalina at thehares.com>
> > To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> > Message-ID: <022701d7ebc2$861e1460$925a3d20$@thehares.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Ah ok. There are both kinds and the Duralast G27 Marine Battery comes in
> > a few flavors Deep Cycle or Deep Cycle/Starting combo and Starting only.
> > Deep cycle and combo versions won't do and many of us have been down that
> > road.
> >
> > If it's super weak starting the engine, yet the main house batteries
> start
> > it fine, the rest of the explanation about wire gauge and condition of
> the
> > contacts are probably spot on.
> >
> > -Cheers!
> > -Jeff
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of
> > Bob Hoyt
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 4:57 PM
> > To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> >
> > re: Inadequate starting battery
> >
> > Thanks for your input. This Duralast DP-DL battery is a starting battery.
> > This week I will check all connections and see if I can find any
> > explanation for the inadequate power. Based on forum comments I don't
> think
> > I will proceed with larger gauge wire or a larger group battery until I
> am
> > satisfied that there is no other explanation
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 3:18 PM <c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Send C320-list mailing list submissions to
> > > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web browser, visit
> > >
> > > http://lists.catalina320.com/listinfo.cgi/c320-list-catalina320.com
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > c320-list-owner at lists.catalina320.com
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of C320-list digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (P.F. Ross)
> > > 2. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (Jeff Hare)
> > > 3. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (P.F. Ross)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 14:36:27 -0600
> > > From: "P.F. Ross" <pfrstl at gmail.com>
> > > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <
> > > CADNKO4A+cvJTac443xQL4RtpLSTKhM+cCSfvOLMWBCJGYYtmhQ at mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had limited
> > > sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two nights on the
> > > hook somewhere. I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of
> > > not being able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my
> > > ownership, having owned the boat since new). Admittedly, I had no
> > > battery condition monitor at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> > >
> > > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I looked
> > > into upgrading my electrical storage options. There are tons of
> > > resources online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart
> > > batteries, Trojan T-105s in my case.
> > >
> > > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> > >
> > > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery
> > > monitor and automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications
> > > for an "always hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly
> > > lacking as OE, at least on my old boat). I have yet to upgrade my
> > > alternator and engine charging system, but so far my setup allows me
> > > to spend three nights out without any worry. It also helps that I have
> > changed all lighting to LED.
> > >
> > > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to
> > > others on this list who have come before me.
> > >
> > > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for me
> > > to man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather than 2
> > > ginormous ones. Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Frank Ross
> > > Beta Wave #206
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more thing
> > > > to
> > > keep
> > > > in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar 3GM30F... There is
> > > > a compression release on top of each cylinder. Pulling one back
> > > > before cranking the motor makes it turn over much easier. Then
> > > > releasing it
> > > once
> > > > the flywheel has some momentum will make for an easier start. And
> > > > the
> > > more
> > > > cylinders you do that with, the easier it gets. I've often thought
> > > > of making linkage from a straight piece of metal that I could tie a
> > > > line to
> > > it
> > > > in case I ever had to do that alone from the helm. They are a
> > > > throwback from when you could hand start the engines with a crank.
> > > > I did it a lot
> > > on
> > > > single & two cylinder Yanmars with no battery when I lived in the
> > > > Amazon region of Brazil.
> > > >
> > > > Hans Dose
> > > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> > > > > things
> > > > are
> > > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a
> > > > > wire
> > > > gauge
> > > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> > > > > requirement, recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our 1998
> > > > > has a Yanmar
> > > 3GM30F
> > > > > and starting surge is 283A. The start surge is only for a second
> > > > > or
> > > two
> > > > > and once the engine kicks up, alternator starts feeding back. Our
> > > > > setup
> > > > is
> > > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> > > > > always start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency
> start.
> > > > >
> > > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > > suffice.
> > > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > > condition.
> > > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight wobble
> > > > > will decrease output). If I were facing this, I would start by
> > > > > the simplest
> > > > and
> > > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of
> > > > > the starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the
> > > > > starting
> > > battery.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as a
> > > > > dedicated
> > > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt golf
> > > > > > cart batteries in series). I installed it just forward of the
> > > > > > starboard
> > > > > battery
> > > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> > > > > > thought
> > > > they
> > > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm
> > > > > > engine,
> > > the
> > > > > > motor will barely turn over. With the battery selector on all,
> > > > > > it
> > > > starts
> > > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> > > > > > change
> > > > the
> > > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the
> > > > > > switch to
> > > > the
> > > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 15:42:01 -0500
> > > From: "Jeff Hare" <Catalina at thehares.com>
> > > To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > > Message-ID: <020b01d7ebaa$e39d1810$aad74830$@thehares.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >
> > > Frank,
> > > I think you meant a pair of 4D batteries, right?
> > > 8D's don't fit in the C320 battery compartment. They're just a bit too
> > > wide and tall. I tried every possible way back in the day to modify
> > > that space to hold them but to no avail.
> > >
> > > -Jeff
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of
> > > P.F. Ross
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 3:36 PM
> > > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had limited
> > > sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two nights on the
> > > hook somewhere. I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of
> > > not being able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my
> > > ownership, having owned the boat since new). Admittedly, I had no
> > > battery condition monitor at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> > >
> > > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I looked
> > > into upgrading my electrical storage options. There are tons of
> > > resources online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart
> > > batteries, Trojan T-105s in my case.
> > >
> > > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> > >
> > > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery
> > > monitor and automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications
> > > for an "always hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly
> > > lacking as OE, at least on my old boat). I have yet to upgrade my
> > > alternator and engine charging system, but so far my setup allows me
> > > to spend three nights out without any worry. It also helps that I have
> > changed all lighting to LED.
> > >
> > > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to
> > > others on this list who have come before me.
> > >
> > > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for me
> > > to man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather than 2
> > > ginormous ones. Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Frank Ross
> > > Beta Wave #206
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more thing
> > > > to keep in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar 3GM30F...
> > > > There is a compression release on top of each cylinder. Pulling one
> > > > back before cranking the motor makes it turn over much easier. Then
> > > > releasing it once the flywheel has some momentum will make for an
> > > > easier start. And the more cylinders you do that with, the easier
> > > > it gets. I've often thought of making linkage from a straight piece
> > > > of metal that I could tie a line to it in case I ever had to do that
> > > > alone from the helm. They are a throwback from when you could hand
> > > > start the engines with a crank. I did it a lot on single & two
> > > > cylinder Yanmars with no battery when I lived in the Amazon region
> > > > of
> > > Brazil.
> > > >
> > > > Hans Dose
> > > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> > > > > things
> > > > are
> > > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a
> > > > > wire
> > > > gauge
> > > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> > > > > requirement, recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our 1998
> > > > > has a Yanmar 3GM30F and starting surge is 283A. The start surge
> > > > > is only for a second or two and once the engine kicks up,
> > > > > alternator starts feeding back. Our setup
> > > > is
> > > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> > > > > always start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency
> start.
> > > > >
> > > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > > suffice.
> > > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > > condition.
> > > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight wobble
> > > > > will decrease output). If I were facing this, I would start by
> > > > > the simplest
> > > > and
> > > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of
> > > > > the starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the
> > > > > starting
> > > battery.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as a
> > > > > dedicated
> > > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt golf
> > > > > > cart batteries in series). I installed it just forward of the
> > > > > > starboard
> > > > > battery
> > > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> > > > > > thought
> > > > they
> > > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm
> > > > > > engine, the motor will barely turn over. With the battery
> > > > > > selector on all, it
> > > > starts
> > > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> > > > > > change
> > > > the
> > > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the
> > > > > > switch to
> > > > the
> > > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 14:43:58 -0600
> > > From: "P.F. Ross" <pfrstl at gmail.com>
> > > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <
> > > CADNKO4DgPPvB6uR+WOo7CnzRuHKzUcMgM03hi7HzgLypN8733Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >
> > > D'Oh!
> > >
> > > Yes, 4D! The ones that originally came in my boat!
> > >
> > > Frank
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 2:42 PM Jeff Hare <Catalina at thehares.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Frank,
> > > > I think you meant a pair of 4D batteries, right?
> > > > 8D's don't fit in the C320 battery compartment. They're just a bit
> > > > too wide and tall. I tried every possible way back in the day to
> > > > modify that space to hold them but to no avail.
> > > >
> > > > -Jeff
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf
> > > > Of P.F. Ross
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 3:36 PM
> > > > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > > >
> > > > Joe,
> > > >
> > > > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had
> > > > limited sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two
> > > > nights on the
> > > hook
> > > > somewhere. I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of not
> > > being
> > > > able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my ownership,
> > > having
> > > > owned the boat since new). Admittedly, I had no battery condition
> > > monitor
> > > > at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> > > >
> > > > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I
> > > > looked into upgrading my electrical storage options. There are tons
> > > > of
> > > resources
> > > > online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart batteries,
> > > Trojan
> > > > T-105s in my case.
> > > >
> > > > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> > > >
> > > > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery
> > > > monitor and automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications
> > > > for an
> > > "always
> > > > hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly lacking as OE, at
> > > > least on my old boat). I have yet to upgrade my alternator and
> > > > engine charging system, but so far my setup allows me to spend three
> > > > nights out without
> > > any
> > > > worry. It also helps that I have changed all lighting to LED.
> > > >
> > > > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to
> > > > others
> > > on
> > > > this list who have come before me.
> > > >
> > > > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for
> > > > me to man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather
> > > > than 2 ginormous ones. Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Frank Ross
> > > > Beta Wave #206
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more
> > > > > thing to keep in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar
> > > > > 3GM30F... There is a compression release on top of each cylinder.
> > > > > Pulling one back before cranking the motor makes it turn over much
> > > > > easier. Then releasing it once the flywheel has some momentum
> > > > > will make for an easier start. And the more cylinders you do that
> > > > > with, the easier it gets. I've often thought of making linkage
> > > > > from a straight piece of metal that I could tie a line to it in
> > > > > case I ever had to do that alone from the helm. They are a
> > > > > throwback from when you could hand start the engines with a crank.
> > > > > I did it a lot on single & two cylinder Yanmars with no battery
> > > > > when I lived in the Amazon region of
> > > > Brazil.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hans Dose
> > > > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer
> > > > > <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Bob,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> > > > > > things
> > > > > are
> > > > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a
> > > > > > wire
> > > > > gauge
> > > > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> > > > > > requirement, recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our
> > > > > > 1998 has a Yanmar 3GM30F and starting surge is 283A. The start
> > > > > > surge is only for a second or two and once the engine kicks up,
> > > > > > alternator starts feeding back. Our setup
> > > > > is
> > > > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> > > > > > always start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency
> > start.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > > > suffice.
> > > > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > > > condition.
> > > > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight
> > > > > > wobble will decrease output). If I were facing this, I would
> > > > > > start by the simplest
> > > > > and
> > > > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of
> > > > > > the starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the
> > > > > > starting
> > > > battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > dedicated
> > > > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt
> > > > > > > golf cart batteries in series). I installed it just forward of
> > > > > > > the starboard
> > > > > > battery
> > > > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> > > > > > > thought
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm
> > > > > > > engine, the motor will barely turn over. With the battery
> > > > > > > selector on all, it
> > > > > starts
> > > > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> > > > > > > change
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the
> > > > > > > switch to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal
> > > > > > > Medicine*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > End of C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> > > ******************************************
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> >
> > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> >
> > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> >
> > *Richmond, VA*
> >
> >
> > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> >
> > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > rehoyt at gmail.com
> >
> > Cell: 850-384-5235
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 19:41:56 -0500
> > From: Jack Brennan <jackbrennan at bellsouth.net>
> > To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> > Message-ID: <226822540.49520.1638924119824 at bellsouth.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > If the start battery is fully charged, I would bet money on it being a
> > faulty ground connection. I can?t give a good technical explanation, but
> I
> > have dealt with bad ground connections before. That?s what it looks like.
> >
> > On my four-battery bank (three house and one start), all of the negative
> > posts are connected to each other, and the last battery has a thick cable
> > that runs to the main negative buss behind the circuit breaker panel.
> >
> > You have four golf-cart batteries, presumably wired in series to get to
> 12
> > volts and connected to the main negative buss. (How did you fit those in
> > the starboard settee, anyway?) What about the start battery? Where does
> its
> > negative cable go? It should somehow connect to the negative on the house
> > bank, or at least to the main negative buss.
> >
> > YMMV, but I can easily start my 3GM30 with one fully charged Interstate
> > group 24, deep cycle battery. It was the same with the Yanmar 2GM20 on my
> > old Bristol 30. You can run into trouble with a significantly discharged
> > battery.
> >
> > One last note is that it can be tricky mixing AGM with flooded lead acid
> > batteries due to charging issues. They require different voltages with
> > 110-volt chargers and solar controllers. Some or many chargers only allow
> > you to set one battery type.
> >
> > Jack Brennan
> > Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
> > Tierra Verde, Fl.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Mail for Windows
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 20:35:16 -0500
> > From: Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
> > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > Message-ID:
> > <CA+rGV8Z_OW1ag=
> > SiE40xSXOcrr-_grp4V20hRzmQqAtnZmTvBA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Couple of nagging issues here. The original 4AWG cables were for the
> > charger and windlass. You can look in my gallery for the original DC
> > wiring diagram as well as a decent idea of a good way to set up for your
> > current configuration. Trying to start your Yanmar engine with a 4AWG
> > cable and by who knows what path is robbing your starter of power due to
> > voltage drop/sag. Even when you are successfully cranking you aren?t
> > doing it well and that will lead to premature starter failure as well as
> > battery issues. Upgrade to 1/0 cable which is really required for the
> > amps your starter is drawing.
> >
> > Also if you are using this battery as a dedicated start battery then most
> > CCAs is the best way to go for deciding which battery to get.
> > Unfortunately it sounds like maybe your battery is wired through the
> > combine switch as a reserve battery not a start battery. Sounds like
> > semantics but it isn?t. If you have the normal 1/2/BOTH/OFF switch then
> > you are most likely just having your G27 battery hanging out in what you
> > think is full reserve use for your starter?but?.your windless might (I
> say
> > might because you really need to understand why there are 4AWG cables on
> > the battery) still be wired to the G27. That would mean that your G27
> is
> > getting used every time you use that current sucking device at the bow of
> > your boat. Now?if for instance you anchor all week, you think the
> battery
> > is hanging out?all the while you are actually hitting hard for juice
> coming
> > off anchor?then?you have a big problem if you aren?t a)switching to BOTH
> > while using your alternator or b) have an ACR.
> >
> > Number 1 is a no brainer your starter can draw huge currents?especially
> > when it?s hard starting (the current goes up actually) Your wire needs
> to
> > be sized to that current draw and 4AWG isn?t correct.
> >
> > Number 2 is way more complicated with so many variables?you need more
> info,
> > maybe you are fine or could be fine with simple ?operational work
> arounds?
> > (this is engineer lingo for we messed up the design because we didn?t
> > understand the requirements so?don?t do that?LOL)
> >
> > FWIW
> >
> > Troy Dunn
> > Hull #514 (Wonky Dog)
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 20:52:19 -0500
> > From: Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
> > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> > CA+rGV8aHOm-z5X+vdxw7_RoXBhXr5JEobsSUfF1bc2CCjwtb6w at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Jack-
> >
> > ?How did you fit those in the starboard settee??
> >
> > LMAO! The answer is?it depends on which hull you have. There are folks
> > who claim to have installed them under the settee and only had to make
> some
> > holes in the wood so the battery terminal has a little divot to sit in?.
> > me?.not so lucky?
> >
> > I had to completely gut that space by removing the old battery shelves
> > (which turned out to be rotting due to what I assume was battery acid
> > damage) and lower the shelves and make them slightly narrower. Pictures
> > in my gallery of those shenanigans. Yay me! It did drastically simplify
> > how to build the shelf for the new reserve battery, so I had that going
> for
> > me.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Troy
> >
> >
> > End of C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 3
> > ******************************************
> >
>
>
> --
>
> *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
>
> *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
>
> *Virginia Commonwealth University*
>
> *Richmond, VA*
>
>
> *CAPT (Ret) USN*
>
> InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> rehoyt at gmail.com
>
> Cell: 850-384-5235
>
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