[C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 3
Bob Hoyt
rehoyt at gmail.com
Wed Dec 8 07:08:43 PST 2021
There is a small compartment forward of the battery compartments. I
connected the negative terminal of the starting battery to one of the main
negative terminals of the golf batteries in series, located about one foot
away that is the same terminal that is a negative to the windlass.
To answer another question. I have never used the windlass with this
battery and it has stayed on a 3 phase modern battery charger so the charge
status is optimal
Bob
On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:08 PM <c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com>
wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2 (Bob Hoyt)
> 2. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (Bill Culbertson)
> 3. Re: Fender Holders (ptormey at 4square.net)
> 4. Re: C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2 (Jeff Hare)
> 5. Re: C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2 (Jack Brennan)
> 6. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (Troy Dunn)
> 7. Re: C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2 (Troy Dunn)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 15:56:50 -0600
> From: Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com>
> To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> Message-ID:
> <CAE9GL2=2fbJuqU+SS-bt=
> JXa2aRvK+eJrWYN1tZRrExB3Hp4ug at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> re: Inadequate starting battery
>
> Thanks for your input. This Duralast DP-DL battery is a starting battery.
> This week I will check all connections and see if I can find any
> explanation for the inadequate power. Based on forum comments I don't think
> I will proceed with larger gauge wire or a larger group battery until I am
> satisfied that there is no other explanation
>
> Bob
>
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 3:18 PM <c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Send C320-list mailing list submissions to
> > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web browser, visit
> >
> > http://lists.catalina320.com/listinfo.cgi/c320-list-catalina320.com
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > c320-list-owner at lists.catalina320.com
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of C320-list digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (P.F. Ross)
> > 2. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (Jeff Hare)
> > 3. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (P.F. Ross)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 14:36:27 -0600
> > From: "P.F. Ross" <pfrstl at gmail.com>
> > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> > CADNKO4A+cvJTac443xQL4RtpLSTKhM+cCSfvOLMWBCJGYYtmhQ at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had limited
> > sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two nights on the
> hook
> > somewhere. I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of not
> being
> > able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my ownership,
> having
> > owned the boat since new). Admittedly, I had no battery condition
> monitor
> > at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> >
> > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I looked
> into
> > upgrading my electrical storage options. There are tons of resources
> > online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart batteries,
> Trojan
> > T-105s in my case.
> >
> > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> >
> > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery monitor
> and
> > automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications for an "always
> > hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly lacking as OE, at least
> > on my old boat). I have yet to upgrade my alternator and engine charging
> > system, but so far my setup allows me to spend three nights out without
> any
> > worry. It also helps that I have changed all lighting to LED.
> >
> > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to others
> on
> > this list who have come before me.
> >
> > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for me to
> > man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather than 2
> > ginormous ones. Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Frank Ross
> > Beta Wave #206
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more thing to
> > keep
> > > in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar 3GM30F... There is a
> > > compression release on top of each cylinder. Pulling one back before
> > > cranking the motor makes it turn over much easier. Then releasing it
> > once
> > > the flywheel has some momentum will make for an easier start. And the
> > more
> > > cylinders you do that with, the easier it gets. I've often thought of
> > > making linkage from a straight piece of metal that I could tie a line
> to
> > it
> > > in case I ever had to do that alone from the helm. They are a
> throwback
> > > from when you could hand start the engines with a crank. I did it a
> lot
> > on
> > > single & two cylinder Yanmars with no battery when I lived in the
> Amazon
> > > region of Brazil.
> > >
> > > Hans Dose
> > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Bob,
> > > >
> > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> things
> > > are
> > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a wire
> > > gauge
> > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> requirement,
> > > > recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our 1998 has a Yanmar
> > 3GM30F
> > > > and starting surge is 283A. The start surge is only for a second or
> > two
> > > > and once the engine kicks up, alternator starts feeding back. Our
> setup
> > > is
> > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> always
> > > > start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency start.
> > > >
> > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > suffice.
> > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > condition.
> > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight wobble
> will
> > > > decrease output). If I were facing this, I would start by the
> simplest
> > > and
> > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of the
> > > > starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the starting
> > battery.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as a
> > > > dedicated
> > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt golf
> cart
> > > > > batteries in series). I installed it just forward of the starboard
> > > > battery
> > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> thought
> > > they
> > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm engine,
> > the
> > > > > motor will barely turn over. With the battery selector on all, it
> > > starts
> > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> change
> > > the
> > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the switch
> to
> > > the
> > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > >
> > > > > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 15:42:01 -0500
> > From: "Jeff Hare" <Catalina at thehares.com>
> > To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > Message-ID: <020b01d7ebaa$e39d1810$aad74830$@thehares.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Frank,
> > I think you meant a pair of 4D batteries, right?
> > 8D's don't fit in the C320 battery compartment. They're just a bit too
> > wide and tall. I tried every possible way back in the day to modify that
> > space to hold them but to no avail.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of
> > P.F. Ross
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 3:36 PM
> > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had limited
> > sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two nights on the
> hook
> > somewhere. I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of not
> being
> > able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my ownership,
> having
> > owned the boat since new). Admittedly, I had no battery condition
> monitor
> > at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> >
> > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I looked
> > into upgrading my electrical storage options. There are tons of
> resources
> > online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart batteries,
> Trojan
> > T-105s in my case.
> >
> > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> >
> > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery monitor
> > and automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications for an
> "always
> > hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly lacking as OE, at least
> > on my old boat). I have yet to upgrade my alternator and engine charging
> > system, but so far my setup allows me to spend three nights out without
> any
> > worry. It also helps that I have changed all lighting to LED.
> >
> > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to others
> on
> > this list who have come before me.
> >
> > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for me to
> > man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather than 2
> > ginormous ones. Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Frank Ross
> > Beta Wave #206
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more thing to
> > > keep in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar 3GM30F... There
> > > is a compression release on top of each cylinder. Pulling one back
> > > before cranking the motor makes it turn over much easier. Then
> > > releasing it once the flywheel has some momentum will make for an
> > > easier start. And the more cylinders you do that with, the easier it
> > > gets. I've often thought of making linkage from a straight piece of
> > > metal that I could tie a line to it in case I ever had to do that
> > > alone from the helm. They are a throwback from when you could hand
> > > start the engines with a crank. I did it a lot on single & two
> > > cylinder Yanmars with no battery when I lived in the Amazon region of
> > Brazil.
> > >
> > > Hans Dose
> > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Bob,
> > > >
> > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> > > > things
> > > are
> > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a
> > > > wire
> > > gauge
> > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> > > > requirement, recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our 1998
> > > > has a Yanmar 3GM30F and starting surge is 283A. The start surge is
> > > > only for a second or two and once the engine kicks up, alternator
> > > > starts feeding back. Our setup
> > > is
> > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> > > > always start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency start.
> > > >
> > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > suffice.
> > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > condition.
> > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight wobble
> > > > will decrease output). If I were facing this, I would start by the
> > > > simplest
> > > and
> > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of the
> > > > starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the starting
> > battery.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as a
> > > > dedicated
> > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt golf
> > > > > cart batteries in series). I installed it just forward of the
> > > > > starboard
> > > > battery
> > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> > > > > thought
> > > they
> > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm engine,
> > > > > the motor will barely turn over. With the battery selector on all,
> > > > > it
> > > starts
> > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> > > > > change
> > > the
> > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the switch
> > > > > to
> > > the
> > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > >
> > > > > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 14:43:58 -0600
> > From: "P.F. Ross" <pfrstl at gmail.com>
> > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> > CADNKO4DgPPvB6uR+WOo7CnzRuHKzUcMgM03hi7HzgLypN8733Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > D'Oh!
> >
> > Yes, 4D! The ones that originally came in my boat!
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 2:42 PM Jeff Hare <Catalina at thehares.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Frank,
> > > I think you meant a pair of 4D batteries, right?
> > > 8D's don't fit in the C320 battery compartment. They're just a bit too
> > > wide and tall. I tried every possible way back in the day to modify
> that
> > > space to hold them but to no avail.
> > >
> > > -Jeff
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of
> > > P.F. Ross
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 3:36 PM
> > > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had limited
> > > sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two nights on the
> > hook
> > > somewhere. I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of not
> > being
> > > able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my ownership,
> > having
> > > owned the boat since new). Admittedly, I had no battery condition
> > monitor
> > > at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> > >
> > > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I looked
> > > into upgrading my electrical storage options. There are tons of
> > resources
> > > online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart batteries,
> > Trojan
> > > T-105s in my case.
> > >
> > > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> > >
> > > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery monitor
> > > and automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications for an
> > "always
> > > hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly lacking as OE, at
> least
> > > on my old boat). I have yet to upgrade my alternator and engine
> charging
> > > system, but so far my setup allows me to spend three nights out without
> > any
> > > worry. It also helps that I have changed all lighting to LED.
> > >
> > > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to others
> > on
> > > this list who have come before me.
> > >
> > > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for me
> to
> > > man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather than 2
> > > ginormous ones. Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Frank Ross
> > > Beta Wave #206
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more thing
> to
> > > > keep in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar 3GM30F...
> There
> > > > is a compression release on top of each cylinder. Pulling one back
> > > > before cranking the motor makes it turn over much easier. Then
> > > > releasing it once the flywheel has some momentum will make for an
> > > > easier start. And the more cylinders you do that with, the easier it
> > > > gets. I've often thought of making linkage from a straight piece of
> > > > metal that I could tie a line to it in case I ever had to do that
> > > > alone from the helm. They are a throwback from when you could hand
> > > > start the engines with a crank. I did it a lot on single & two
> > > > cylinder Yanmars with no battery when I lived in the Amazon region of
> > > Brazil.
> > > >
> > > > Hans Dose
> > > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> > > > > things
> > > > are
> > > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a
> > > > > wire
> > > > gauge
> > > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> > > > > requirement, recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our 1998
> > > > > has a Yanmar 3GM30F and starting surge is 283A. The start surge is
> > > > > only for a second or two and once the engine kicks up, alternator
> > > > > starts feeding back. Our setup
> > > > is
> > > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> > > > > always start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency
> start.
> > > > >
> > > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > > suffice.
> > > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > > condition.
> > > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight wobble
> > > > > will decrease output). If I were facing this, I would start by the
> > > > > simplest
> > > > and
> > > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of
> the
> > > > > starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the starting
> > > battery.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as a
> > > > > dedicated
> > > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt golf
> > > > > > cart batteries in series). I installed it just forward of the
> > > > > > starboard
> > > > > battery
> > > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> > > > > > thought
> > > > they
> > > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm
> engine,
> > > > > > the motor will barely turn over. With the battery selector on
> all,
> > > > > > it
> > > > starts
> > > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> > > > > > change
> > > > the
> > > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the switch
> > > > > > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > End of C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> > ******************************************
> >
>
>
> --
>
> *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
>
> *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
>
> *Virginia Commonwealth University*
>
> *Richmond, VA*
>
>
> *CAPT (Ret) USN*
>
> InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> rehoyt at gmail.com
>
> Cell: 850-384-5235
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 22:27:18 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Bill Culbertson <billculb_a2 at yahoo.com>
> To: "c320-list at catalina320.com" <c320-list at catalina320.com>,
> "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> Message-ID: <91969259.762073.1638916038849 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I hear you re: 4D =?ginormous.? My Lifeline 4DL's are needing replacement
> next spring.? I got a whopping 13 years out of them (and yes I know they
> are not cheap but they are indestructible).? They weigh an impressive 135
> pounds apiece.? I plan to hire a couple of 25 year olds to schlep the new
> ones aboard and schlep the old ones into my car (for core credit back home).
> ?-bill
> C320IA Secretary/TreasurerHarmony #859
> On Tuesday, December 7, 2021, 03:36:46 PM EST, P.F. Ross <
> pfrstl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Joe,
>
> I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had limited
> sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two nights on the hook
> somewhere.? I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of not being
> able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my ownership, having
> owned the boat since new).? Admittedly, I had no battery condition monitor
> at that time, so it was all guesswork.
>
> When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I looked into
> upgrading my electrical storage options.? There are tons of resources
> online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart batteries, Trojan
> T-105s in my case.
>
> https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
>
> I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery monitor and
> automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications for an "always
> hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly lacking as OE, at least
> on my old boat).? I have yet to upgrade my alternator and engine charging
> system, but so far my setup allows me to spend three nights out without any
> worry.? It also helps that I have changed all lighting to LED.
>
> None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to others on
> this list who have come before me.
>
> A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for me to
> man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather than 2
> ginormous ones.? Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
>
> Regards,
>
> Frank Ross
> Beta Wave #206
>
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more thing to
> keep
> > in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar 3GM30F... There is a
> > compression release on top of each cylinder.? Pulling one back before
> > cranking the motor makes it turn over much easier.? Then releasing it
> once
> > the flywheel has some momentum will make for an easier start.? And the
> more
> > cylinders you do that with, the easier it gets.? I've often thought of
> > making linkage from a straight piece of metal that I could tie a line to
> it
> > in case I ever had to do that alone from the helm.? They are a throwback
> > from when you could hand start the engines with a crank.? I did it a lot
> on
> > single? & two cylinder Yanmars with no battery when I lived in the Amazon
> > region of Brazil.
> >
> > Hans Dose
> > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Bob,
> > >
> > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how things
> > are
> > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a wire
> > gauge
> > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp requirement,
> > > recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our 1998 has a Yanmar
> 3GM30F
> > > and starting surge is 283A.? The start surge is only for a second or
> two
> > > and once the engine kicks up, alternator starts feeding back. Our setup
> > is
> > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we always
> > > start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency start.
> > >
> > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> suffice.
> > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > condition.
> > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight wobble will
> > > decrease output).? If I were facing this, I would start by the simplest
> > and
> > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of the
> > > starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the starting
> battery.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as a
> > > dedicated
> > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt golf cart
> > > > batteries in series). I installed it just forward of the starboard
> > > battery
> > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I thought
> > they
> > > > were adequate.
> > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm engine,
> the
> > > > motor will barely turn over. With the battery selector on all, it
> > starts
> > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to change
> > the
> > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the switch to
> > the
> > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > Hull 154
> > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > >
> > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> > > >
> > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > >
> > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > >
> > > > InformaticsEducation.org? <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 17:57:46 -0500
> From: <ptormey at 4square.net>
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Fender Holders
> Message-ID: <00de01d7ebbd$da3b88c0$8eb29a40$@4square.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I just tie the ends of two fenders together at the right length for them
> to be thrown around two stations and hang at the right level.
>
> Pat Tormey
> Blue Skies s/v
> Newport, RI USA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of
> Tom Grass
> Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 10:02 PM
> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> Cc: Tracy Grass <tracy.grass at gmail.com>
> Subject: [C320-list] Fender Holders
>
> When the weather gets warmer once again we will be leaving the dock for
> future adventures. Every once in a while Bucket List comes a bit too close
> to upright posts on the docks which might catch one or more of the
> suspended fenders on that side of the hull.
>
> What is the opinion of this group - the best kind / brand of fender holder
> which will securely hold the fender - BUT - if grabbed by a dock based
> obstacle will give away before any damage occurs to the stanchions or
> lifeloines?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom Grass
> s/v Bucket List
> 2008 Catalina 320 MK II
> # 1135
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 18:31:12 -0500
> From: "Jeff Hare" <Catalina at thehares.com>
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> Message-ID: <022701d7ebc2$861e1460$925a3d20$@thehares.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Ah ok. There are both kinds and the Duralast G27 Marine Battery comes in
> a few flavors Deep Cycle or Deep Cycle/Starting combo and Starting only.
> Deep cycle and combo versions won't do and many of us have been down that
> road.
>
> If it's super weak starting the engine, yet the main house batteries start
> it fine, the rest of the explanation about wire gauge and condition of the
> contacts are probably spot on.
>
> -Cheers!
> -Jeff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of
> Bob Hoyt
> Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 4:57 PM
> To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
>
> re: Inadequate starting battery
>
> Thanks for your input. This Duralast DP-DL battery is a starting battery.
> This week I will check all connections and see if I can find any
> explanation for the inadequate power. Based on forum comments I don't think
> I will proceed with larger gauge wire or a larger group battery until I am
> satisfied that there is no other explanation
>
> Bob
>
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 3:18 PM <c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Send C320-list mailing list submissions to
> > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web browser, visit
> >
> > http://lists.catalina320.com/listinfo.cgi/c320-list-catalina320.com
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > c320-list-owner at lists.catalina320.com
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of C320-list digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (P.F. Ross)
> > 2. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (Jeff Hare)
> > 3. Re: Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery (P.F. Ross)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 14:36:27 -0600
> > From: "P.F. Ross" <pfrstl at gmail.com>
> > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> > CADNKO4A+cvJTac443xQL4RtpLSTKhM+cCSfvOLMWBCJGYYtmhQ at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had limited
> > sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two nights on the
> > hook somewhere. I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of
> > not being able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my
> > ownership, having owned the boat since new). Admittedly, I had no
> > battery condition monitor at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> >
> > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I looked
> > into upgrading my electrical storage options. There are tons of
> > resources online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart
> > batteries, Trojan T-105s in my case.
> >
> > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> >
> > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery
> > monitor and automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications
> > for an "always hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly
> > lacking as OE, at least on my old boat). I have yet to upgrade my
> > alternator and engine charging system, but so far my setup allows me
> > to spend three nights out without any worry. It also helps that I have
> changed all lighting to LED.
> >
> > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to
> > others on this list who have come before me.
> >
> > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for me
> > to man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather than 2
> > ginormous ones. Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Frank Ross
> > Beta Wave #206
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more thing
> > > to
> > keep
> > > in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar 3GM30F... There is
> > > a compression release on top of each cylinder. Pulling one back
> > > before cranking the motor makes it turn over much easier. Then
> > > releasing it
> > once
> > > the flywheel has some momentum will make for an easier start. And
> > > the
> > more
> > > cylinders you do that with, the easier it gets. I've often thought
> > > of making linkage from a straight piece of metal that I could tie a
> > > line to
> > it
> > > in case I ever had to do that alone from the helm. They are a
> > > throwback from when you could hand start the engines with a crank.
> > > I did it a lot
> > on
> > > single & two cylinder Yanmars with no battery when I lived in the
> > > Amazon region of Brazil.
> > >
> > > Hans Dose
> > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Bob,
> > > >
> > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> > > > things
> > > are
> > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a
> > > > wire
> > > gauge
> > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> > > > requirement, recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our 1998
> > > > has a Yanmar
> > 3GM30F
> > > > and starting surge is 283A. The start surge is only for a second
> > > > or
> > two
> > > > and once the engine kicks up, alternator starts feeding back. Our
> > > > setup
> > > is
> > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> > > > always start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency start.
> > > >
> > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > suffice.
> > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > condition.
> > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight wobble
> > > > will decrease output). If I were facing this, I would start by
> > > > the simplest
> > > and
> > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of
> > > > the starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the
> > > > starting
> > battery.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as a
> > > > dedicated
> > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt golf
> > > > > cart batteries in series). I installed it just forward of the
> > > > > starboard
> > > > battery
> > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> > > > > thought
> > > they
> > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm
> > > > > engine,
> > the
> > > > > motor will barely turn over. With the battery selector on all,
> > > > > it
> > > starts
> > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> > > > > change
> > > the
> > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the
> > > > > switch to
> > > the
> > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > >
> > > > > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 15:42:01 -0500
> > From: "Jeff Hare" <Catalina at thehares.com>
> > To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > Message-ID: <020b01d7ebaa$e39d1810$aad74830$@thehares.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Frank,
> > I think you meant a pair of 4D batteries, right?
> > 8D's don't fit in the C320 battery compartment. They're just a bit too
> > wide and tall. I tried every possible way back in the day to modify
> > that space to hold them but to no avail.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of
> > P.F. Ross
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 3:36 PM
> > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had limited
> > sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two nights on the
> > hook somewhere. I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of
> > not being able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my
> > ownership, having owned the boat since new). Admittedly, I had no
> > battery condition monitor at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> >
> > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I looked
> > into upgrading my electrical storage options. There are tons of
> > resources online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart
> > batteries, Trojan T-105s in my case.
> >
> > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> >
> > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery
> > monitor and automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications
> > for an "always hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly
> > lacking as OE, at least on my old boat). I have yet to upgrade my
> > alternator and engine charging system, but so far my setup allows me
> > to spend three nights out without any worry. It also helps that I have
> changed all lighting to LED.
> >
> > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to
> > others on this list who have come before me.
> >
> > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for me
> > to man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather than 2
> > ginormous ones. Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Frank Ross
> > Beta Wave #206
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more thing
> > > to keep in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar 3GM30F...
> > > There is a compression release on top of each cylinder. Pulling one
> > > back before cranking the motor makes it turn over much easier. Then
> > > releasing it once the flywheel has some momentum will make for an
> > > easier start. And the more cylinders you do that with, the easier
> > > it gets. I've often thought of making linkage from a straight piece
> > > of metal that I could tie a line to it in case I ever had to do that
> > > alone from the helm. They are a throwback from when you could hand
> > > start the engines with a crank. I did it a lot on single & two
> > > cylinder Yanmars with no battery when I lived in the Amazon region
> > > of
> > Brazil.
> > >
> > > Hans Dose
> > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Bob,
> > > >
> > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> > > > things
> > > are
> > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a
> > > > wire
> > > gauge
> > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> > > > requirement, recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our 1998
> > > > has a Yanmar 3GM30F and starting surge is 283A. The start surge
> > > > is only for a second or two and once the engine kicks up,
> > > > alternator starts feeding back. Our setup
> > > is
> > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> > > > always start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency start.
> > > >
> > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > suffice.
> > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > condition.
> > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight wobble
> > > > will decrease output). If I were facing this, I would start by
> > > > the simplest
> > > and
> > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of
> > > > the starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the
> > > > starting
> > battery.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as a
> > > > dedicated
> > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt golf
> > > > > cart batteries in series). I installed it just forward of the
> > > > > starboard
> > > > battery
> > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> > > > > thought
> > > they
> > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm
> > > > > engine, the motor will barely turn over. With the battery
> > > > > selector on all, it
> > > starts
> > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> > > > > change
> > > the
> > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the
> > > > > switch to
> > > the
> > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > >
> > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > >
> > > > > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 14:43:58 -0600
> > From: "P.F. Ross" <pfrstl at gmail.com>
> > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> > CADNKO4DgPPvB6uR+WOo7CnzRuHKzUcMgM03hi7HzgLypN8733Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > D'Oh!
> >
> > Yes, 4D! The ones that originally came in my boat!
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 2:42 PM Jeff Hare <Catalina at thehares.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Frank,
> > > I think you meant a pair of 4D batteries, right?
> > > 8D's don't fit in the C320 battery compartment. They're just a bit
> > > too wide and tall. I tried every possible way back in the day to
> > > modify that space to hold them but to no avail.
> > >
> > > -Jeff
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf
> > > Of P.F. Ross
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 3:36 PM
> > > To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> > > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> > >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > I also had 8Ds last for nearly 8 years but that was when I had
> > > limited sailing area on an inland lake and spent one, maybe two
> > > nights on the
> > hook
> > > somewhere. I was also afraid to use my refrigerator for fear of not
> > being
> > > able to start one morning (nearly happened early on in my ownership,
> > having
> > > owned the boat since new). Admittedly, I had no battery condition
> > monitor
> > > at that time, so it was all guesswork.
> > >
> > > When I moved my boat to SW FL and was able to cruise farther, I
> > > looked into upgrading my electrical storage options. There are tons
> > > of
> > resources
> > > online, but this page in particular moved me to golf cart batteries,
> > Trojan
> > > T-105s in my case.
> > >
> > > https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
> > >
> > > I also added other upgrades including a modern charger, battery
> > > monitor and automatic charging relay along with wiring modifications
> > > for an
> > "always
> > > hot" bus and proper overcurrent protection (sadly lacking as OE, at
> > > least on my old boat). I have yet to upgrade my alternator and
> > > engine charging system, but so far my setup allows me to spend three
> > > nights out without
> > any
> > > worry. It also helps that I have changed all lighting to LED.
> > >
> > > None of this is my original discovery, but instead I owe much to
> > > others
> > on
> > > this list who have come before me.
> > >
> > > A final benefit to the golf cart batts is that they are easier for
> > > me to man-handle if need be since there are 4 smaller units rather
> > > than 2 ginormous ones. Doable 25 years ago, now at 69 not so much.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Frank Ross
> > > Beta Wave #206
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Hans Dose <hans.dose at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I know this doesn't directly address your issue, but one more
> > > > thing to keep in the back of your mind for anyone with a Yanmar
> > > > 3GM30F... There is a compression release on top of each cylinder.
> > > > Pulling one back before cranking the motor makes it turn over much
> > > > easier. Then releasing it once the flywheel has some momentum
> > > > will make for an easier start. And the more cylinders you do that
> > > > with, the easier it gets. I've often thought of making linkage
> > > > from a straight piece of metal that I could tie a line to it in
> > > > case I ever had to do that alone from the helm. They are a
> > > > throwback from when you could hand start the engines with a crank.
> > > > I did it a lot on single & two cylinder Yanmars with no battery
> > > > when I lived in the Amazon region of
> > > Brazil.
> > > >
> > > > Hans Dose
> > > > 1999 hull #569 "King's X"
> > > > Alamitos Bay - Long Beach, CA
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Onat Dogruer
> > > > <onatdogruer at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > > I tend to be very cautious before commenting without knowing how
> > > > > things
> > > > are
> > > > > wired on someone's boat. However, the issue doesn't sound like a
> > > > > wire
> > > > gauge
> > > > > issue. Typically older diesels have a higher cranking amp
> > > > > requirement, recommended 450-500CCA min starting battery. Our
> > > > > 1998 has a Yanmar 3GM30F and starting surge is 283A. The start
> > > > > surge is only for a second or two and once the engine kicks up,
> > > > > alternator starts feeding back. Our setup
> > > > is
> > > > > slightly similar; we have deep cycle golf cart batteries but we
> > > > > always start on that bank. Aux battery serves as an emergency
> start.
> > > > >
> > > > > G27 batteries should be more than adequate; even a good G24 will
> > > suffice.
> > > > > The issue might be the 'new' battery may not actually be in good
> > > > > condition.
> > > > > Alternatively, there may be a loose terminal (even a slight
> > > > > wobble will decrease output). If I were facing this, I would
> > > > > start by the simplest
> > > > and
> > > > > check the terminals, go over the wiring of the house bank and of
> > > > > the starting battery, and lastly may do a load-test on the
> > > > > starting
> > > battery.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Bob Hoyt <rehoyt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I recently installed a Duralast G27 Marine battery to serve as
> > > > > > a
> > > > > dedicated
> > > > > > starting battery to go with my house batteries (4 six-volt
> > > > > > golf cart batteries in series). I installed it just forward of
> > > > > > the starboard
> > > > > battery
> > > > > > compartment. The existing cables are listed as 4 gauge, so I
> > > > > > thought
> > > > they
> > > > > > were adequate.
> > > > > > With a fully charged new battery and either a cold or warm
> > > > > > engine, the motor will barely turn over. With the battery
> > > > > > selector on all, it
> > > > starts
> > > > > > quickly. Is the group 27 battery underpowered or do I need to
> > > > > > change
> > > > the
> > > > > > wire from the battery to the main switch and wire from the
> > > > > > switch to
> > > > the
> > > > > > starter motor to 2 gauge? Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob Hoyt
> > > > > > Hull 154
> > > > > > 1994 C320 "Ikigai"
> > > > > > Pensacola, Fl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal
> > > > > > Medicine*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Virginia Commonwealth University*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Richmond, VA*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *CAPT (Ret) USN*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> > > > > > rehoyt at gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cell: 850-384-5235
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > End of C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> > ******************************************
> >
>
>
> --
>
> *Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
>
> *Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
>
> *Virginia Commonwealth University*
>
> *Richmond, VA*
>
>
> *CAPT (Ret) USN*
>
> InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
> rehoyt at gmail.com
>
> Cell: 850-384-5235
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 19:41:56 -0500
> From: Jack Brennan <jackbrennan at bellsouth.net>
> To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> Message-ID: <226822540.49520.1638924119824 at bellsouth.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> If the start battery is fully charged, I would bet money on it being a
> faulty ground connection. I can?t give a good technical explanation, but I
> have dealt with bad ground connections before. That?s what it looks like.
>
> On my four-battery bank (three house and one start), all of the negative
> posts are connected to each other, and the last battery has a thick cable
> that runs to the main negative buss behind the circuit breaker panel.
>
> You have four golf-cart batteries, presumably wired in series to get to 12
> volts and connected to the main negative buss. (How did you fit those in
> the starboard settee, anyway?) What about the start battery? Where does its
> negative cable go? It should somehow connect to the negative on the house
> bank, or at least to the main negative buss.
>
> YMMV, but I can easily start my 3GM30 with one fully charged Interstate
> group 24, deep cycle battery. It was the same with the Yanmar 2GM20 on my
> old Bristol 30. You can run into trouble with a significantly discharged
> battery.
>
> One last note is that it can be tricky mixing AGM with flooded lead acid
> batteries due to charging issues. They require different voltages with
> 110-volt chargers and solar controllers. Some or many chargers only allow
> you to set one battery type.
>
> Jack Brennan
> Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
> Tierra Verde, Fl.
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 20:35:16 -0500
> From: Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Inadequate Dedicated Starting Battery
> Message-ID:
> <CA+rGV8Z_OW1ag=
> SiE40xSXOcrr-_grp4V20hRzmQqAtnZmTvBA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Couple of nagging issues here. The original 4AWG cables were for the
> charger and windlass. You can look in my gallery for the original DC
> wiring diagram as well as a decent idea of a good way to set up for your
> current configuration. Trying to start your Yanmar engine with a 4AWG
> cable and by who knows what path is robbing your starter of power due to
> voltage drop/sag. Even when you are successfully cranking you aren?t
> doing it well and that will lead to premature starter failure as well as
> battery issues. Upgrade to 1/0 cable which is really required for the
> amps your starter is drawing.
>
> Also if you are using this battery as a dedicated start battery then most
> CCAs is the best way to go for deciding which battery to get.
> Unfortunately it sounds like maybe your battery is wired through the
> combine switch as a reserve battery not a start battery. Sounds like
> semantics but it isn?t. If you have the normal 1/2/BOTH/OFF switch then
> you are most likely just having your G27 battery hanging out in what you
> think is full reserve use for your starter?but?.your windless might (I say
> might because you really need to understand why there are 4AWG cables on
> the battery) still be wired to the G27. That would mean that your G27 is
> getting used every time you use that current sucking device at the bow of
> your boat. Now?if for instance you anchor all week, you think the battery
> is hanging out?all the while you are actually hitting hard for juice coming
> off anchor?then?you have a big problem if you aren?t a)switching to BOTH
> while using your alternator or b) have an ACR.
>
> Number 1 is a no brainer your starter can draw huge currents?especially
> when it?s hard starting (the current goes up actually) Your wire needs to
> be sized to that current draw and 4AWG isn?t correct.
>
> Number 2 is way more complicated with so many variables?you need more info,
> maybe you are fine or could be fine with simple ?operational work arounds?
> (this is engineer lingo for we messed up the design because we didn?t
> understand the requirements so?don?t do that?LOL)
>
> FWIW
>
> Troy Dunn
> Hull #514 (Wonky Dog)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 20:52:19 -0500
> From: Troy Dunn <troutwarrior at gmail.com>
> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 2
> Message-ID:
> <
> CA+rGV8aHOm-z5X+vdxw7_RoXBhXr5JEobsSUfF1bc2CCjwtb6w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Jack-
>
> ?How did you fit those in the starboard settee??
>
> LMAO! The answer is?it depends on which hull you have. There are folks
> who claim to have installed them under the settee and only had to make some
> holes in the wood so the battery terminal has a little divot to sit in?.
> me?.not so lucky?
>
> I had to completely gut that space by removing the old battery shelves
> (which turned out to be rotting due to what I assume was battery acid
> damage) and lower the shelves and make them slightly narrower. Pictures
> in my gallery of those shenanigans. Yay me! It did drastically simplify
> how to build the shelf for the new reserve battery, so I had that going for
> me.
>
> Regards
>
> Troy
>
>
> End of C320-list Digest, Vol 4149, Issue 3
> ******************************************
>
--
*Robert (Bob) Hoyt MD, FACP, FAMIA, ABPM-CI*
*Associate Clinical Professor, Department of Internal Medicine*
*Virginia Commonwealth University*
*Richmond, VA*
*CAPT (Ret) USN*
InformaticsEducation.org <http://InformaticsEducation.org>
rehoyt at gmail.com
Cell: 850-384-5235
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