[C320-list] White Smoke from Diesel Exhaust

[Dave Hupe]

Jeff's cost (and positive result) of about $550 to rehab his injectors and injection pump is fantastic.  A new M30 injection pump is about $800 from parts4engines.com. Andrew's experience of getting injectors rebuilt for $2000 is regrettable. 
Bob - you cannot attach files in these posts.
Dave Hupe 1994 #32

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:44 AM, Bob Borelli via C320-list<c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:   Jeff, thank you for your response.  Did you remove the injectors & injection pump from your M30 to send to the Norfolk diesel shop.
I am looking at the arrangement on my diesel, lots of parts to remove but I think with proper labeling I can re-install.
I worry about sealing the openings after removal to prevent debris.
And bleeding air from the pump & injectors after reinstall.
I have been successful in bleeding air after replacing primary & secondary filter, have not had to bleed injectors.
Attached file is my M30 bleed procedure.

Andrew, thank you for your response.  At about $2000 to rebuild the injectors I believe will try to replace the injectors.
Parts4engines list a new injector at $97.

Unexpectedly the marina towed my boat from mooring to put on the hard for winter storage,
So I cannot operate the M30 long enough to check for blow by.
Now that the boats on the hard I can pull the exhaust elbow & check for restrictions.


________________________________
From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Jeff Smith via C320-list <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2023 3:50 PM
To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
Cc: Jeff Smith <svsailmates512 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] White Smoke from Diesel Exhaust

Bob,

Your symptoms sound similar to mine, though mine was hard to start as well
(could have been battery related). I had a diesel shop in Norfolk test the
injectors and rebuild all 3. I still had issues and had them rebuild my
injection pump. The cost for everything was approx $550. Runs fine now.

Jeff
121, Perkins M30

On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 5:48 PM Bob Borelli via C320-list <
c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:

> Thank you Albert, I will pull the exhaust elbow & check for carbon build
> up.  I have thinking about replacing the elbow with new plus exhaust hose.
> I have followed the posts for adding hump hose, purchase one, measured
> onboard, not enough room to fit in 12" lenght of hose tween elbow & muffler
> nipple.
>
> Thank you Elliot, I will start the diesel, warm it up to idle 1000 rpms,
> remove the oil cap & find out if air blowing out to check for blow by.  I
> will also test at 2800 rpms.
>
> Thank you Rich,  for the last 3 seasons I have been taking & logging
> temperature measurements at various locations on the M30 using a 'Laser
> Infrared Thermometer Temp Gun'.
> I take temp readings at the same locations after M30 has been operating at
> 2800 rpms & the Control Panel temp gauge reads 190F.
> Always 190F unless overheat, I know this gauge works.
>
> I measure at the:
>
>  1.  Hull bottom for water temperature
>  2.  Stuffing tube
>  3.  Raw water & exhaust hose between elbow & aqua muffler
>  4.  Raw water & exhaust discharge elbow
>  5.  Rubber cap from manifold to elbow
>  6.  Top of exhaust manifold
>  7.  Side of exhaust manifold
>  8.  Engine block beside oil filter
>  9.  Cylinder head
>  10. All 3 fuel injectors at their base at cylinder head
>  11. Water pump
>  12. Raw water pump.
>
> Over the past 200 engine hours these temps have been similar, so no
> indications from them.  Worth doing this?
> Open the radiator cap, the anti-freeze is circulating & no bubbles appear
> that might indicate blown head gasket.
> Never need to add anti-freeze or oil during the season.
> Raw water impeller ok, good flow from overboard exhaust.  No smoke on
> start up.  M30 starts quickly even with low battery volts.
> I plan to have the marina pull the injectors & send their shop, start here.
> And Compression Test!
> Any additional thoughts, comments are most appreciated.
>
> Bob Borelli 1995 Catalina 320 no. 209 at Sailing Associates Inc,
> Georgetown MD.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of
> Rich Allen via C320-list <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2023 7:13 PM
> To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
> Cc: Rich Allen <randnallen at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] White Smoke from Diesel Exhaust
>
> Hi Bob,
> I am hoping that your issue is due to one of the less invasive causes.  I
> received a big dose of education stemming from a problem caused by rings
> stuck in the piston grooves (1995 Westerbeke 30B, 1170 hours).  In my case,
> the engine started and ran fine, until one time it did not start after
> repeated attempts to start.  There was low compression in cylinders 1 and
> 2.  The stuck rings cause blowby observed by smoke coming from the
> crankcase from the dipstick hole with the dipstick removed.  A compression
> test is pretty quick and easy to do if you have the equipment, and that
> would narrow your search.  A good diesel mechanic would have the tools
> available, though these mechanics seem to be difficult to find.  If you
> want to do the compression test yourself, a test kit is available from
> Harbor Freight for not too much, but be aware that diesel engines are
> higher compression than gas so a higher pressure gauge is needed.  The
> compression can be tested through the glow-plug holes.  How are you
> determining the temperature at the various injectors?  A stuck-open
> thermostat could  interfere with the engine operating temperature which
> you should see on the control panel.  You can test the thermostat in a pot
> of water to see that it opens at the proper temperature, or a replacement
> is not too expensive to rule it out.
>
> I hope you get resolution without needing a rebuild. Keep us all informed
> with what you find.
>
> Best regards,
> Rich Allen, Destiny 1995 #265
>
> On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 2:37 PM Elliott Womack via C320-list <
> c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> > Check for blow by. With the engine running bring the rpm up a bit, and go
> > remove the oil fill cap. Place your hand over the fill and see how much
> air
> > you feel blowing. It should NOT feel like a small shop vac blowing.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023, 1:17 PM Albert Kitten via C320-list <
> > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Is the mixing elbow blocked with carbon deposits?
> > >
> > > On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, 4:55 am Bob Borelli via C320-list, <
> > > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My diesel exhaust is emitting white smoke, possibly blue white,
> about 3
> > > to
> > > > 4 feet long at operating speed of 2800 rpms.  The smoke remains at
> the
> > > > water surface until dissipating.  No smoke at start up or idle at
> 1000
> > > > rpms.  This 1995 Perkins M30 diesel has 1560 hours.
> > > >
> > > > The diesel is not overheating.  I have had the underwater hull
> cleaned.
> > > > Appears to be good raw water overflow from the exhaust.  Various
> > > > temperature readings around the diesel & exhaust at operating speed
> of
> > > 2800
> > > > rpms have remained the same.  No loss of coolant.  Raw water impeller
> > > > good.  No water in the Racor bowl.  Fuel filters new.  Additives
> used
> > > are
> > > > Biobor MD & JF.  Fuel  purchased fuel from truck stop.
> > > >
> > > > The no. 1 injector temp (197F) is less then no. 2 & no. 3 (220F).
>  I
> > > > don’t know if injectors have been serviced in the 1560 hours.  The
> tech
> > > > manual states service after 900 hours.  My plan is to have the
> > injectors
> > > > removed for testing.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone had similar white smoke issues from their diesel?  And how
> > > > resolved?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What creates White Smoke from diesel exhaust?
> > > >
> > > > White Smoke is nearly always water vapor & is quite normal when
> engine
> > is
> > > > first started.
> > > >
> > > > However if it persist for more then a few seconds, engine could have
> > > > problems:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > White Smoke indicates Overheating!  Steam! Due to restricted
> Injection
> > > > Elbow!  Test by measure the temperature in the ‘Wet’ portion of
> Exhaust
> > > > Hose, should be below 200F. insufficient raw water flow.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Overcooling - cylinder head & combustion chamber operate at
> > temperatures
> > > > too low for proper combustion (my cylinder no.1 lower temp?)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > White Smoke represents atomized fuel, very small droplets of fuel
> that
> > > > cause a fog.
> > > >
> > > > White Smoke from exhaust indicates diesel fuel not burning correctly
> -
> > > the
> > > > Injectors.
> > > >
> > > > Fuel is not burning completely.  Replace fuel Injector.
> > > >
> > > > Raw diesel fuel is passing thru combustion chamber into the exhaust
> > > stream.
> > > >
> > > > White smoke unburned fuel indicates damaged injectors.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Preheat device - Glow Plugs malfunctioning?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Poor fuel quality (not formulated as no. 2 diesel), add fuel Cetane
> > > > Booster may temporarily alleviated & identify poor quality fuel as
> > > > problem.  Contaminated Fuel.  Water in the fuel.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Low pressure to the fuel pump.  Damaged or incorrect fuel pump
> timing.
> > > > Dirty fuel filter.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Poor Atomization of Fuel - Injectors
> > > >
> > > > Injector nozzle stuck open [1].    Injector nozzle seat worn [1].
> > > >  Injector pressure low [1].
> > > >
> > > > Low fuel grade [4].  Injection timing retarded [4].
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Poor Compression:
> > > >
> > > > Low cylinder compression.  Leaking inlet or exhaust valve [3].
> >  Piston
> > > > rings stuck in grooves [3]
> > > >
> > > > Worn piston rings and cylinders [3].  Piston ring blow by.    Damages
> > > > rings.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Water in the fuel:
> > > >
> > > > Check Coolant Level
> > > >
> > > > Coolant working its way into cylinders & burning along with the fuel.
> > > >
> > > > Blown Head gasket - cooling water escaping from galleries & entering
> a
> > > > combustion chamber.
> > > >
> > > > Water mixed in fuel from cracked head gasket, cylinder head or block.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ·          Inspect Valve Seals for signs of leakage.  Poorly
> adjusted
> > > > valves or worn valve seats.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ·          Cracks in Intake Manifold Gasket
> > > >
> > > > ·          Cracks in Head Gasket or Head gasket blown.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ·          Cracks in cylinder head
> > > >
> > > > ·          Cracks in exhaust manifold.
> > > >
> > > > ·          Cracks in engine block.
> > > >
> > > > ·          Inspect Piston Rings for signs of leakage.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ·          Damaged timing gear
> > > >
> > >
> >
>