[C320-list] White Smoke from Diesel Exhaust
Jeff Smith
svsailmates512 at gmail.com
Sun Nov 12 10:04:11 PST 2023
Bob,
Be careful removing the metal fuel lines. That was the biggest issue. I
twisted one, so I replaced all of them. It was my fault for not backing it
with “a spanner “ or wrench as we say here in the US.
In terms of keeping track of parts, etc., I also did the injectors first
and then did the injection pump when I still had issues. When removing the
pump, there is a spacer that is crucial. Carefully label everything.
Regarding bleeding, I put an electric fuel pump on my boat to use to bleed
the system and serve as a backup if the mechanical pump ever fails.
Between that and a handheld starter used down below, I did not have much
trouble.
Jeff
On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 10:43 AM Bob Borelli <cassattc22 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Jeff, thank you for your response. Did you remove the injectors &
> injection pump from your M30 to send to the Norfolk diesel shop.
> I am looking at the arrangement on my diesel, lots of parts to remove but
> I think with proper labeling I can re-install.
> I worry about sealing the openings after removal to prevent debris.
> And bleeding air from the pump & injectors after reinstall.
> I have been successful in bleeding air after replacing primary & secondary
> filter, have not had to bleed injectors.
> Attached file is my M30 bleed procedure.
>
> Andrew, thank you for your response. At about $2000 to rebuild the
> injectors I believe will try to replace the injectors.
> Parts4engines list a new injector at $97.
>
> Unexpectedly the marina towed my boat from mooring to put on the hard for
> winter storage,
> So I cannot operate the M30 long enough to check for blow by.
> Now that the boats on the hard I can pull the exhaust elbow & check for
> restrictions.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of
> Jeff Smith via C320-list <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, November 10, 2023 3:50 PM
> *To:* C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
> *Cc:* Jeff Smith <svsailmates512 at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [C320-list] White Smoke from Diesel Exhaust
>
> Bob,
>
> Your symptoms sound similar to mine, though mine was hard to start as well
> (could have been battery related). I had a diesel shop in Norfolk test the
> injectors and rebuild all 3. I still had issues and had them rebuild my
> injection pump. The cost for everything was approx $550. Runs fine now.
>
> Jeff
> 121, Perkins M30
>
> On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 5:48 PM Bob Borelli via C320-list <
> c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> > Thank you Albert, I will pull the exhaust elbow & check for carbon build
> > up. I have thinking about replacing the elbow with new plus exhaust
> hose.
> > I have followed the posts for adding hump hose, purchase one, measured
> > onboard, not enough room to fit in 12" lenght of hose tween elbow &
> muffler
> > nipple.
> >
> > Thank you Elliot, I will start the diesel, warm it up to idle 1000 rpms,
> > remove the oil cap & find out if air blowing out to check for blow by. I
> > will also test at 2800 rpms.
> >
> > Thank you Rich, for the last 3 seasons I have been taking & logging
> > temperature measurements at various locations on the M30 using a 'Laser
> > Infrared Thermometer Temp Gun'.
> > I take temp readings at the same locations after M30 has been operating
> at
> > 2800 rpms & the Control Panel temp gauge reads 190F.
> > Always 190F unless overheat, I know this gauge works.
> >
> > I measure at the:
> >
> > 1. Hull bottom for water temperature
> > 2. Stuffing tube
> > 3. Raw water & exhaust hose between elbow & aqua muffler
> > 4. Raw water & exhaust discharge elbow
> > 5. Rubber cap from manifold to elbow
> > 6. Top of exhaust manifold
> > 7. Side of exhaust manifold
> > 8. Engine block beside oil filter
> > 9. Cylinder head
> > 10. All 3 fuel injectors at their base at cylinder head
> > 11. Water pump
> > 12. Raw water pump.
> >
> > Over the past 200 engine hours these temps have been similar, so no
> > indications from them. Worth doing this?
> > Open the radiator cap, the anti-freeze is circulating & no bubbles appear
> > that might indicate blown head gasket.
> > Never need to add anti-freeze or oil during the season.
> > Raw water impeller ok, good flow from overboard exhaust. No smoke on
> > start up. M30 starts quickly even with low battery volts.
> > I plan to have the marina pull the injectors & send their shop, start
> here.
> > And Compression Test!
> > Any additional thoughts, comments are most appreciated.
> >
> > Bob Borelli 1995 Catalina 320 no. 209 at Sailing Associates Inc,
> > Georgetown MD.
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of
> > Rich Allen via C320-list <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2023 7:13 PM
> > To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
> > Cc: Rich Allen <randnallen at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [C320-list] White Smoke from Diesel Exhaust
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> > I am hoping that your issue is due to one of the less invasive causes. I
> > received a big dose of education stemming from a problem caused by rings
> > stuck in the piston grooves (1995 Westerbeke 30B, 1170 hours). In my
> case,
> > the engine started and ran fine, until one time it did not start after
> > repeated attempts to start. There was low compression in cylinders 1 and
> > 2. The stuck rings cause blowby observed by smoke coming from the
> > crankcase from the dipstick hole with the dipstick removed. A
> compression
> > test is pretty quick and easy to do if you have the equipment, and that
> > would narrow your search. A good diesel mechanic would have the tools
> > available, though these mechanics seem to be difficult to find. If you
> > want to do the compression test yourself, a test kit is available from
> > Harbor Freight for not too much, but be aware that diesel engines are
> > higher compression than gas so a higher pressure gauge is needed. The
> > compression can be tested through the glow-plug holes. How are you
> > determining the temperature at the various injectors? A stuck-open
> > thermostat could interfere with the engine operating temperature which
> > you should see on the control panel. You can test the thermostat in a
> pot
> > of water to see that it opens at the proper temperature, or a replacement
> > is not too expensive to rule it out.
> >
> > I hope you get resolution without needing a rebuild. Keep us all informed
> > with what you find.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Rich Allen, Destiny 1995 #265
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 2:37 PM Elliott Womack via C320-list <
> > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Check for blow by. With the engine running bring the rpm up a bit, and
> go
> > > remove the oil fill cap. Place your hand over the fill and see how much
> > air
> > > you feel blowing. It should NOT feel like a small shop vac blowing.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023, 1:17 PM Albert Kitten via C320-list <
> > > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is the mixing elbow blocked with carbon deposits?
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, 4:55 am Bob Borelli via C320-list, <
> > > > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > My diesel exhaust is emitting white smoke, possibly blue white,
> > about 3
> > > > to
> > > > > 4 feet long at operating speed of 2800 rpms. The smoke remains at
> > the
> > > > > water surface until dissipating. No smoke at start up or idle at
> > 1000
> > > > > rpms. This 1995 Perkins M30 diesel has 1560 hours.
> > > > >
> > > > > The diesel is not overheating. I have had the underwater hull
> > cleaned.
> > > > > Appears to be good raw water overflow from the exhaust. Various
> > > > > temperature readings around the diesel & exhaust at operating speed
> > of
> > > > 2800
> > > > > rpms have remained the same. No loss of coolant. Raw water
> impeller
> > > > > good. No water in the Racor bowl. Fuel filters new. Additives
> > used
> > > > are
> > > > > Biobor MD & JF. Fuel purchased fuel from truck stop.
> > > > >
> > > > > The no. 1 injector temp (197F) is less then no. 2 & no. 3 (220F).
> > I
> > > > > don’t know if injectors have been serviced in the 1560 hours. The
> > tech
> > > > > manual states service after 900 hours. My plan is to have the
> > > injectors
> > > > > removed for testing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anyone had similar white smoke issues from their diesel? And
> how
> > > > > resolved?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What creates White Smoke from diesel exhaust?
> > > > >
> > > > > White Smoke is nearly always water vapor & is quite normal when
> > engine
> > > is
> > > > > first started.
> > > > >
> > > > > However if it persist for more then a few seconds, engine could
> have
> > > > > problems:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > White Smoke indicates Overheating! Steam! Due to restricted
> > Injection
> > > > > Elbow! Test by measure the temperature in the ‘Wet’ portion of
> > Exhaust
> > > > > Hose, should be below 200F. insufficient raw water flow.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Overcooling - cylinder head & combustion chamber operate at
> > > temperatures
> > > > > too low for proper combustion (my cylinder no.1 lower temp?)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > White Smoke represents atomized fuel, very small droplets of fuel
> > that
> > > > > cause a fog.
> > > > >
> > > > > White Smoke from exhaust indicates diesel fuel not burning
> correctly
> > -
> > > > the
> > > > > Injectors.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fuel is not burning completely. Replace fuel Injector.
> > > > >
> > > > > Raw diesel fuel is passing thru combustion chamber into the exhaust
> > > > stream.
> > > > >
> > > > > White smoke unburned fuel indicates damaged injectors.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Preheat device - Glow Plugs malfunctioning?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Poor fuel quality (not formulated as no. 2 diesel), add fuel Cetane
> > > > > Booster may temporarily alleviated & identify poor quality fuel as
> > > > > problem. Contaminated Fuel. Water in the fuel.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Low pressure to the fuel pump. Damaged or incorrect fuel pump
> > timing.
> > > > > Dirty fuel filter.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Poor Atomization of Fuel - Injectors
> > > > >
> > > > > Injector nozzle stuck open [1]. Injector nozzle seat worn [1].
> > > > > Injector pressure low [1].
> > > > >
> > > > > Low fuel grade [4]. Injection timing retarded [4].
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Poor Compression:
> > > > >
> > > > > Low cylinder compression. Leaking inlet or exhaust valve [3].
> > > Piston
> > > > > rings stuck in grooves [3]
> > > > >
> > > > > Worn piston rings and cylinders [3]. Piston ring blow by.
> Damages
> > > > > rings.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Water in the fuel:
> > > > >
> > > > > Check Coolant Level
> > > > >
> > > > > Coolant working its way into cylinders & burning along with the
> fuel.
> > > > >
> > > > > Blown Head gasket - cooling water escaping from galleries &
> entering
> > a
> > > > > combustion chamber.
> > > > >
> > > > > Water mixed in fuel from cracked head gasket, cylinder head or
> block.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > · Inspect Valve Seals for signs of leakage. Poorly
> > adjusted
> > > > > valves or worn valve seats.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > · Cracks in Intake Manifold Gasket
> > > > >
> > > > > · Cracks in Head Gasket or Head gasket blown.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > · Cracks in cylinder head
> > > > >
> > > > > · Cracks in exhaust manifold.
> > > > >
> > > > > · Cracks in engine block.
> > > > >
> > > > > · Inspect Piston Rings for signs of leakage.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > · Damaged timing gear
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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