[C320-list] White Smoke from Diesel Exhaust
Bruce Heyman
BruceHeyman at cox.net
Mon Nov 13 07:48:12 PST 2023
Hi Bob,
You can still run your engine on the hard. I used to winterize mine after we were on the hard. You just have to use a garden hose to make "raw" water available for cooling.
Best,
Bruce
Bruce Heyman
Somerset #671 San Pedro (LA) California
-----Original Message-----
From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of Bob Borelli via C320-list
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 7:43 AM
To: C320-List at catalina320.com
Cc: Bob Borelli <cassattc22 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] White Smoke from Diesel Exhaust
Jeff, thank you for your response. Did you remove the injectors & injection pump from your M30 to send to the Norfolk diesel shop.
I am looking at the arrangement on my diesel, lots of parts to remove but I think with proper labeling I can re-install.
I worry about sealing the openings after removal to prevent debris.
And bleeding air from the pump & injectors after reinstall.
I have been successful in bleeding air after replacing primary & secondary filter, have not had to bleed injectors.
Attached file is my M30 bleed procedure.
Andrew, thank you for your response. At about $2000 to rebuild the injectors I believe will try to replace the injectors.
Parts4engines list a new injector at $97.
Unexpectedly the marina towed my boat from mooring to put on the hard for winter storage, So I cannot operate the M30 long enough to check for blow by.
Now that the boats on the hard I can pull the exhaust elbow & check for restrictions.
________________________________
From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Jeff Smith via C320-list <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2023 3:50 PM
To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
Cc: Jeff Smith <svsailmates512 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] White Smoke from Diesel Exhaust
Bob,
Your symptoms sound similar to mine, though mine was hard to start as well (could have been battery related). I had a diesel shop in Norfolk test the injectors and rebuild all 3. I still had issues and had them rebuild my injection pump. The cost for everything was approx $550. Runs fine now.
Jeff
121, Perkins M30
On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 5:48 PM Bob Borelli via C320-list < c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
> Thank you Albert, I will pull the exhaust elbow & check for carbon
> build up. I have thinking about replacing the elbow with new plus exhaust hose.
> I have followed the posts for adding hump hose, purchase one, measured
> onboard, not enough room to fit in 12" lenght of hose tween elbow &
> muffler nipple.
>
> Thank you Elliot, I will start the diesel, warm it up to idle 1000
> rpms, remove the oil cap & find out if air blowing out to check for
> blow by. I will also test at 2800 rpms.
>
> Thank you Rich, for the last 3 seasons I have been taking & logging
> temperature measurements at various locations on the M30 using a
> 'Laser Infrared Thermometer Temp Gun'.
> I take temp readings at the same locations after M30 has been
> operating at
> 2800 rpms & the Control Panel temp gauge reads 190F.
> Always 190F unless overheat, I know this gauge works.
>
> I measure at the:
>
> 1. Hull bottom for water temperature
> 2. Stuffing tube
> 3. Raw water & exhaust hose between elbow & aqua muffler
> 4. Raw water & exhaust discharge elbow
> 5. Rubber cap from manifold to elbow
> 6. Top of exhaust manifold
> 7. Side of exhaust manifold
> 8. Engine block beside oil filter
> 9. Cylinder head
> 10. All 3 fuel injectors at their base at cylinder head
> 11. Water pump
> 12. Raw water pump.
>
> Over the past 200 engine hours these temps have been similar, so no
> indications from them. Worth doing this?
> Open the radiator cap, the anti-freeze is circulating & no bubbles
> appear that might indicate blown head gasket.
> Never need to add anti-freeze or oil during the season.
> Raw water impeller ok, good flow from overboard exhaust. No smoke on
> start up. M30 starts quickly even with low battery volts.
> I plan to have the marina pull the injectors & send their shop, start here.
> And Compression Test!
> Any additional thoughts, comments are most appreciated.
>
> Bob Borelli 1995 Catalina 320 no. 209 at Sailing Associates Inc,
> Georgetown MD.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of
> Rich Allen via C320-list <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2023 7:13 PM
> To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
> Cc: Rich Allen <randnallen at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] White Smoke from Diesel Exhaust
>
> Hi Bob,
> I am hoping that your issue is due to one of the less invasive causes.
> I received a big dose of education stemming from a problem caused by
> rings stuck in the piston grooves (1995 Westerbeke 30B, 1170 hours).
> In my case, the engine started and ran fine, until one time it did not
> start after repeated attempts to start. There was low compression in
> cylinders 1 and 2. The stuck rings cause blowby observed by smoke
> coming from the crankcase from the dipstick hole with the dipstick
> removed. A compression test is pretty quick and easy to do if you
> have the equipment, and that would narrow your search. A good diesel
> mechanic would have the tools available, though these mechanics seem
> to be difficult to find. If you want to do the compression test
> yourself, a test kit is available from Harbor Freight for not too
> much, but be aware that diesel engines are higher compression than gas
> so a higher pressure gauge is needed. The compression can be tested
> through the glow-plug holes. How are you determining the temperature
> at the various injectors? A stuck-open thermostat could interfere
> with the engine operating temperature which you should see on the
> control panel. You can test the thermostat in a pot of water to see
> that it opens at the proper temperature, or a replacement is not too expensive to rule it out.
>
> I hope you get resolution without needing a rebuild. Keep us all
> informed with what you find.
>
> Best regards,
> Rich Allen, Destiny 1995 #265
>
> On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 2:37 PM Elliott Womack via C320-list <
> c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> > Check for blow by. With the engine running bring the rpm up a bit,
> > and go remove the oil fill cap. Place your hand over the fill and
> > see how much
> air
> > you feel blowing. It should NOT feel like a small shop vac blowing.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 8, 2023, 1:17 PM Albert Kitten via C320-list <
> > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Is the mixing elbow blocked with carbon deposits?
> > >
> > > On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, 4:55 am Bob Borelli via C320-list, <
> > > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My diesel exhaust is emitting white smoke, possibly blue white,
> about 3
> > > to
> > > > 4 feet long at operating speed of 2800 rpms. The smoke remains
> > > > at
> the
> > > > water surface until dissipating. No smoke at start up or idle at
> 1000
> > > > rpms. This 1995 Perkins M30 diesel has 1560 hours.
> > > >
> > > > The diesel is not overheating. I have had the underwater hull
> cleaned.
> > > > Appears to be good raw water overflow from the exhaust. Various
> > > > temperature readings around the diesel & exhaust at operating
> > > > speed
> of
> > > 2800
> > > > rpms have remained the same. No loss of coolant. Raw water impeller
> > > > good. No water in the Racor bowl. Fuel filters new. Additives
> used
> > > are
> > > > Biobor MD & JF. Fuel purchased fuel from truck stop.
> > > >
> > > > The no. 1 injector temp (197F) is less then no. 2 & no. 3 (220F).
> I
> > > > don’t know if injectors have been serviced in the 1560 hours.
> > > > The
> tech
> > > > manual states service after 900 hours. My plan is to have the
> > injectors
> > > > removed for testing.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone had similar white smoke issues from their diesel?
> > > > And how resolved?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What creates White Smoke from diesel exhaust?
> > > >
> > > > White Smoke is nearly always water vapor & is quite normal when
> engine
> > is
> > > > first started.
> > > >
> > > > However if it persist for more then a few seconds, engine could
> > > > have
> > > > problems:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > White Smoke indicates Overheating! Steam! Due to restricted
> Injection
> > > > Elbow! Test by measure the temperature in the ‘Wet’ portion of
> Exhaust
> > > > Hose, should be below 200F. insufficient raw water flow.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Overcooling - cylinder head & combustion chamber operate at
> > temperatures
> > > > too low for proper combustion (my cylinder no.1 lower temp?)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > White Smoke represents atomized fuel, very small droplets of
> > > > fuel
> that
> > > > cause a fog.
> > > >
> > > > White Smoke from exhaust indicates diesel fuel not burning
> > > > correctly
> -
> > > the
> > > > Injectors.
> > > >
> > > > Fuel is not burning completely. Replace fuel Injector.
> > > >
> > > > Raw diesel fuel is passing thru combustion chamber into the
> > > > exhaust
> > > stream.
> > > >
> > > > White smoke unburned fuel indicates damaged injectors.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Preheat device - Glow Plugs malfunctioning?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Poor fuel quality (not formulated as no. 2 diesel), add fuel
> > > > Cetane Booster may temporarily alleviated & identify poor
> > > > quality fuel as problem. Contaminated Fuel. Water in the fuel.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Low pressure to the fuel pump. Damaged or incorrect fuel pump
> timing.
> > > > Dirty fuel filter.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Poor Atomization of Fuel - Injectors
> > > >
> > > > Injector nozzle stuck open [1]. Injector nozzle seat worn [1].
> > > > Injector pressure low [1].
> > > >
> > > > Low fuel grade [4]. Injection timing retarded [4].
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Poor Compression:
> > > >
> > > > Low cylinder compression. Leaking inlet or exhaust valve [3].
> > Piston
> > > > rings stuck in grooves [3]
> > > >
> > > > Worn piston rings and cylinders [3]. Piston ring blow by. Damages
> > > > rings.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Water in the fuel:
> > > >
> > > > Check Coolant Level
> > > >
> > > > Coolant working its way into cylinders & burning along with the fuel.
> > > >
> > > > Blown Head gasket - cooling water escaping from galleries &
> > > > entering
> a
> > > > combustion chamber.
> > > >
> > > > Water mixed in fuel from cracked head gasket, cylinder head or block.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > · Inspect Valve Seals for signs of leakage. Poorly
> adjusted
> > > > valves or worn valve seats.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > · Cracks in Intake Manifold Gasket
> > > >
> > > > · Cracks in Head Gasket or Head gasket blown.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > · Cracks in cylinder head
> > > >
> > > > · Cracks in exhaust manifold.
> > > >
> > > > · Cracks in engine block.
> > > >
> > > > · Inspect Piston Rings for signs of leakage.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > · Damaged timing gear
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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