[C320-list] Perkins heat exchanger

Sun Sep 15 06:25:03 PDT 2024

Dan-
For your test (very inventive), I assume you had the end rubber boots attached and each end clamped securely on both the tank and tube stack? 
Actually, I think your test suggests that the tube stack has a leak.  Water in the pressurized tank should not permeate the tube stack and flow out the exhaust elbow.  If the tank actually were bad, shouldn't  leakage occur somewhere on the outside of the tank itself or out of the exhaust ports (where mounted to the engine)?
Can you pull the tube stack out of the tank, attach the rubber boots to its ends and pressurize it to see if it leaks?
Dave Hupe 
1994 C320 #32
Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer 

  On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 8:47 AM, Dan Winsor<dandwinsor at gmail.com> wrote:   
Update: I removed the manifold/heat exchanger and put it in the vice leaving the hoses attached as well as the tubestack and boots. I connected the hoses from the water pump with a tee and attached a garden hose to the third leg of the tee. This allowed me to fill and pressurize the fresh water side of the unit with the radiator cap protecting from over pressure. As soon as it got to pressure, a steady stream flowed from the exhaust elbow. I believe this confirms a cracked or hole from exhaust to fresh water thus condemning the housing. As many have stated, finding a replacement will be near impossible but I'll be optimistic and hope someone still has one on the shelf.
Dan Winsor 
Lucky Devil #109

On Sat, Sep 14, 2024, 08:47 Dave Hupe via C320-list <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:

You wouldn't be able to inspect the heat exchanger exhaust ports without removing the tank from the engine.
Dave Hupe
1994 C320 #32

Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer 

  On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 8:25 PM, Bob Borelli via C320-list<c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:   Thank you all!  I am following your emails.
I plan to push out the 'tube stack' for cleaning & will inspect the exhaust ports on the heat exchanger.
I pulled the exhaust elbow, filled out some carbon build up, tried to reach my file into the heat exchanger, no avail.
I have operated my M30 at 2500 rpms vice 2800 rpms for 99.92 hours this 2024 season so far.
At 2500 rpms no white smoke, no problems, starts right up.
Fingers crossed.

Bob Borelli
C320 # 209 with Perkins M30
________________________________
From: C320-list <c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Dan Winsor via C320-list <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2024 7:58 PM
To: C320-List at catalina320.com <C320-List at catalina320.com>
Cc: Dan Winsor <dandwinsor at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Perkins heat exchanger

WOW guys, thank you very much for your responses. Let me give you the
complete picture
For a few years I have been noting a very minor loss of coolant. Found a
leak at the hot water tank and replaced it and the hoses from the engine,
replaced coolant with new.
Also replaced radiator cap and hose to expansion tank because the exp tank
level stayed constant while the tank level decreased.
A few more seasons went by, basically no issues. Never overheated but at
end of season I would add coolant to exp tank and coolant tank. Less than a
cup full total.
In late July my diesel failed to start for the first time in my 20 years of
operation. I determined  that all of the glow plugs were infinite
resistance to ground and replaced them. In the interim between diagnosing
and replacement I started the engine 4 times using starting fluid. (<second
spray while stopped, then start) After replacing the glow plugs starting
returned to normal but I started getting whiffs of hot glycol from time to
time. I started adding coolant after every run, always < cup.
On a longer run (3+ hours) I saw the temp gage at 200+ and shut down. I
also saw some coolant in the engine bilge.
I ran the engine briefly a few times, always filling the tank first.
We hauled out on Wednesday and on Thursday I cleaned the bilge of a cup or
two of coolant and ran the diesel for an hour at 2000 rpm using an open 5
gal pail and hose. It never went above 170 and it did not leak anywhere. I
have yet to pull the cap and see what level is but I did crack the 6
exhaust header bolts loose and then snug them.
I have a new tubestack, hose set, gasket set, exhaust elbow, and water pump
on hand. (I noted that the water pump pulley has a slight amount of play)
My plan was to renew the cooling system but the tank seems to be
unavailable.
There you have it. My sad story. I'll appreciate your feedback having taken
the time to read this novel. Dave has brought up head gasket possibilities.
I am thinking that the coolant in the bilge came from one time when I
filled the coolant tank to the cap and over-filled the expansion tank.
Tomorrow I will see how much coolant is gone from the 1 hour run and I'll
update the post.
Thanks guys!
Dan Winsor
Lucky Devil #109

On Fri, Sep 13, 2024, 15:57 Steve Weinstein via C320-list <
c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:

>  When I had the problem with the C270 M20, Perkins did a worldwide search
> for me and found nothing.  But that was at the height of Covid and their
> foundry in Europe was shut down.  Don't know if it ever came back on line.
> I ended up getting a good quality used one from a parts company in
> England.  Don't remember the name but they part out old marine engines and
> were very helpful.  They happened to have an M20 they were just taking
> apart, same vintage as mine, so I got lucky.  I don't remember the name of
> the company, but might be able to find it in old emails if it's needed.
> All my paperwork went to the buyer when I sold the boat to get the C320.
> Steve Weinstein, 2000 C320 #722, Vega
>
>    On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 03:35:41 PM EDT, Dave Hupe via
> C320-list <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
>
> Try here .... look under Perkins M series
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tadiesels.com%2Fheat-exchangers-manifolds.html&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cbd670b1a342a45a7fa7208dcd450094c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638618687441929105%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tFwQGxU%2BpuX1VY87OZaw%2F50zdiu9JWm8SDWqWSYaBFA%3D&reserved=0<https://www.tadiesels.com/heat-exchangers-manifolds.html>
> Dave Hupe
> 1994 C320 #32
>
> Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer
>
>  On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 3:28 PM, P.F. Ross via C320-list<
> c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:  Dave, they were one of the first
> people I checked with and they did not
> have any tanks as of April, 2024.  But always worth a try if someone needs
> one!
>
> Frank Ross
> Beta Wave #206
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:22 PM Dave Hupe via C320-list <
> c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> > I bought a new heat exchanger tank from
> >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fparts4engines.com%2Fcollections%2Fperkins-perama-m30-parts%3Fpage%3D2%26grid_list%3Dgrid-view&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cbd670b1a342a45a7fa7208dcd450094c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638618687441942214%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qIGa%2BsetUWBJaJeI4DGsOUXMgi38cupf6%2FL71kX%2BvO4%3D&reserved=0<https://parts4engines.com/collections/perkins-perama-m30-parts?page=2&grid_list=grid-view>
> several
> > years ago but have not seen it available for a long time.  However, it
> > would be a good idea to email them and ask if needed. They have been very
> > responsive for  me over the years. Their pricing (including oversees
> > shipping) and speed has always been great .... exceeding US firms.
> > Dave Hupe
> > 1994 C320 #32
> >
> > Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer
> >
> >  On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 1:26 PM, P.F. Ross via C320-list<
> > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:  Dan, I will echo what Steve
> > just said.  If you have the tank off, carefully
> > inspect for any holes between exhaust path and coolant tank.
> > I am way behind on reporting on my smoke issue from March of this year,
> but
> > it turned out to be a broken exhaust valve.  I will post a complete
> report
> > on that soon but one thing that did show up was a carboned up exhaust
> path
> > where the tank connects to the exhaust hose.  As my mechanic was gingerly
> > trying to clean it up, he found a hole between the exhaust manifold and
> > coolant tank sections.  At this point, the cast iron tank became a small
> > anchor and a replacement would be needed.
> >
> > Hopefully, you do not have this problem since new tanks seem to be no
> > longer available from Perkins or others.  Fortunately, I found a NOS one
> in
> > England from Marine Enterprises (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.marineenterprisesltd.co.uk%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cbd670b1a342a45a7fa7208dcd450094c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638618687441957064%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VmUlNjS4i%2Fotxzzf4P%2Fzylc0p7AnJ7cwjBQtRTQmaZE%3D&reserved=0
> ).
> > Jonathan Staple there was incredibly helpful.  I did look at others on
> ebay
> > but all were second hand.  In any case, they do not give these things
> away.
> >
> > I also used the threaded rod trick as described by Steve to clean out my
> > heat exchanger tubes.  But really, all my tubes were incredibly clean as
> > is.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Frank Ross
> > Beta Wave #206
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 12:03 PM Steve Weinstein via C320-list <
> > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
> >
> > >  Dan,I had a Perama M20 on my former C270 and had a coolant leak.
> Turned
> > > out it was in the heat exchanger in the wall of the exhaust manifold.
> If
> > > the M30 is similar, the heat exchanger works as both the exhaust
> manifold
> > > and the heat exchanger for the engine cooling system.  Over time, the
> hot
> > > exhaust ate away at the manifold and created a hole into the heat
> > exchanger
> > > water tank.  If you have the engine apart, I would suggest examining
> the
> > > manifold closely for a possible pinhole between the exhaust and the
> heat
> > > exchanger tank.
> > > As far as the tube stack goes, as noted, it's easy to slide it out once
> > > you have the rugger end caps and hose clamps removed.  A little gentle
> > > persuasion may be needed but be very careful.  If there is any buildup
> in
> > > the tubes, you can easily clean them out with a piece of threaded rod
> and
> > > flush them out.  I got the threaded rod at Ace Hardware, just need to
> > find
> > > the right size.  And work carefully, you don't want to damage those
> > tubes.
> > > Hope the helps,Steve Weinstein2000 C320 #722, Vega
> > >
> > >    On Friday, September 13, 2024 at 07:00:51 AM EDT, Dan Winsor via
> > > C320-list <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >  Thank you Dave, don't know what we would do without you. Lucky Devil
> is
> > in
> > > my yard, stripped. I ran the diesel for an hour without overheating
> then
> > > got brave and tried the 6 mounting bolts. All 6 loosened nicely and I
> > have
> > > all the parts, except the tank, on hand for rebuilding including water
> > pump
> > > and all rubbers. Really wanted to ID the source of coolant lose before
> > > tearing it down but....
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2024, 21:25 Dave Hupe via C320-list <
> > > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The big front and rear rubber boots clamp simultaneously to both the
> > heat
> > > > exchanger tank and the "tube stack" inside. That is why you see two
> > large
> > > > clamps around each boot.  The larger clamp is clamping onto the hole
> > thru
> > > > the tank while the slightly smaller clamp is holding onto the end of
> > the
> > > > tube. If the boots are removed, it is possible to slide the tube out
> of
> > > the
> > > > tank.
> > > > Yes ... you do not need to actually remove the heat exchanger tank
> from
> > > > the engine.
> > > > I changed my heat exchanger tank so I should be able to send you some
> > > > photos to demonstrate this tomorrow.
> > > > Dave Hupe
> > > > 1994 C320 #32
> > > > Holland,  MI
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer
> > > >
> > > >  On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 8:54 PM, Dan Winsor via C320-list<
> > > > c320-list at lists.catalina320.com> wrote:  I know there is an
> abundance
> > of
> > > > this topic on record but just a quick
> > > > question.
> > > > What retains the tube-stack within the heat exchanger? Is it possible
> > to
> > > > change the stack without pulling the box?
> > > > Ok, 2 questions.
> > > > Thx,
> > > > Dan Winsor
> > > > Lucky Devil #109
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>