[C320-list] Raw water

[Chris Burti]

You shouldn't need to prime it. However, a new gasket will exacerbate the
problem of grooves worn into the cover. You may need to surface the cover
plate.

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:45 AM, james_delong
<james_delong at bellsouth.net>wrote:

> Yep...sea cock open.  I don't know if the pump, with an entirely dry
> system, creates enough of a vacuum to pull the water through it, or you need
> to prime it somehow.
>
> Jim
>
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 21:03:59 -0800
>> From: "Kirk McCullough" <kirk.mccullough at telus.net>
>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] raw water
>> Message-ID: <002d01ca95a0$26068d30$7213a790$@mccullough at telus.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Did you remember to re-open the seacock? :)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of
>> james_delong
>> Sent: 14 January 2010 20:13
>> To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] raw water
>>
>> Great suggestions on the raw water question...thanks to all!
>>
>> Went through the entire system today and found a leak in the pump.  After
>> replacing the gasket, have been unable to get any water through the
>> system..
>>
>> I drained all the water out when I inspected the heat exchanger.  Is there
>> some trick in priming the pump so it draws water, or if it doesn't, do I
>> assume the pump is not operating? I had some intermittent water flow
>> before
>> but none now.  Pulled the hose at the intake side of the heat exchanger
>> and
>> it was dry so no water is getting that far.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jim   #453
>>
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:43:17 +1100
>>> From: "MICHAEL COLE" <mcol3781 at bigpond.net.au>
>>> To: "Catalina320" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>> Subject: [C320-list] Raw Water System
>>> Message-ID: <8B08BE2814934C2AB7BB82DECCC4E494 at michael>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> James sometimes the bond between the bronze centre piece of the impeller
>>> and the rubber blades fails.  This is often not immediately obvious on
>>> inspection but the bond slips under load. I had this problem a few years
>>> ago and it took me a while to work it out.  Good luck
>>>        Mike Cole    #421   Mio Dio
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:02:13 -0500
>>> From: "Warren Updike" <wupdike at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Raw water system
>>> Message-ID: <BAY114-DS5CEE206FEC3AB569FC08CBE6C0 at phx.gbl>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> After owning our #62 for about 2 years, I had a problem with cooling. I
>>> found about 7 impeller blades in the intake to the heat exchanger from
>>> the
>>> prior owner. Be sure to check that.
>>>
>>> Warren & Pattie Updike
>>> Catalina 320, #62, "Warr De Mar"
>>> Middle River, Chesapeake Bay
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: james_delong [mailto:james_delong at bellsouth.net]
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:35 AM
>>> To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
>>> Subject: [C320-list] Raw water system
>>>
>>> Y'all, (I'm allowed to use that term as I'm in Georgia)
>>>
>>> Anyway...
>>>
>>> I have an issue with the raw water system.  It seems to work intermently!
>>>
>>> Yep...checked the sea cock (clear), strainer (clear) and impeller
>>> (new)....
>>>
>>> What is next?  I'm assuming the raw rater pump itself (do these fail?),
>>> heat
>>> exchanger and the mixing elbow, but don't want to tackle those without
>>> some
>>> indication either of these could be the culprit!
>>>
>>> Some history.  Once we smelled rubber burning like the pump stopped
>>> rotation.  After checking this and tightening the belt all was OK.  A
>>> couple
>>> of other times there was no exhaust water, but the next time there was!
>>> After the last sail, all was OK.  But starting the boat at the dock now
>>> results in no flow at all.
>>>
>>> Ideas?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jim #453
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:25:01 +1100
>> From: Bruce Stanley <brucestanley36 at gmail.com>
>> To: C320-List <c320-list at catalina320.org>
>> Subject: [C320-list] pad eye attached to deck
>> Message-ID:
>> <9d5459ff1001150225y4fc9662le17627231234062e at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> I want to added pad eyes attachments to the deck of my C320 Mk1.
>> This will need to take a load of 100lbs.
>> Do I need to add a plate under it?
>> Will the internal lining cave in? ... or is that up!
>>
>> suggestions appreciated.
>>
>> Bruce Stanley / C320 #1084
>> Sydney / Australia
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:36:03 -0500
>> From: Chris Burti <clburti at gmail.com>
>> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] pad eye attached to deck
>> Message-ID:
>> <79721a9c1001150536j5dc64265y28356f861a3afeea at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Catalina reinforced many places on the deck of the C-320 with aluminum
>> plate
>> or solid glass to facilitate the installation of deck hardware. Your best
>> bet is to contact them, tell them where plan to install the pad-eyes and
>> let
>> them suggest a specific location.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:25 AM, Bruce Stanley <brucestanley36 at gmail.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> I want to added pad eyes attachments to the deck of my C320 Mk1.
>>> This will need to take a load of 100lbs.
>>> Do I need to add a plate under it?
>>> Will the internal lining cave in? ... or is that up!
>>>
>>> suggestions appreciated.
>>>
>>> Bruce Stanley / C320 #1084
>>> Sydney / Australia
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Burti Farmville, NC
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:26:15 -0500
>> From: Chris Burti <clburti at gmail.com>
>> To: C320-List at catalina320.com
>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>> Message-ID:
>> <79721a9c1001150626g18ebd57ep3e6a015d174d35b8 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> I think that I may be the one posting about the Exide commercial heavy
>> truck
>> batteries that you are referring to.
>>
>> True, our batteries are not labeled "*deep cycle*". While I am not a
>> battery
>> engineer, I actually researched this purchase pretty carefully before
>> deciding which way to go and price wasn't the sole or deciding factor.
>> What
>> I found leads me to believe that all a deep cycle battery essentially has
>> over a starting battery is fewer and thicker plates and all that a marine
>> battery has over a regular battery is marine lugs with a screw post and
>> better anti-vibration matting. Heavy trucks have many more power demands
>> than just starting, such as the frequent need to run lighting with the
>> engine off as well as many other accessory loads.  As a result of these
>> performance demands, both of those features are built into Exide's
>> commercial truck batteries (no marine lugs though).
>>
>> Because of much higher sales volume and stiff competition, one might
>> suppose
>> that heavy truck batteries might be priced significantly lower than
>> "marine
>> deep cycle" batteries. And, one might suppose that labeling truck
>> batteries
>> as 'deep cycle' might bleed off significant sales from the marine line
>> which
>> might be a more profitable line the the more competitively priced heavy
>> truck line. Several seasons of frequent 50% draw down on our Exides has,
>> so
>> far, seemed to support my screwy hypothesis about "deep cycle" labeling
>> within a manufacturer's line possibly being influenced by marketing
>> considerations as well as performance and design parameters. Regardless of
>> the accuracy of my suppositions, as of this writing, I think is fair to
>> say
>> that our four seasons of enjoying the 50% price differential equates to 8
>> seasons at full price from an economist's perspective, so we are heading
>> into another 'gravy' season.
>>
>> Just food for thought.
>> Fair winds,
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Kirk McCullough <
>> kirk.mccullough at telus.net
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>
>> I don't think Mike's Exide batteries are deep cycle, they are basically
>>> truck starting batteries not intended to cycle down to low and too many
>>> times. Having said that, I would also recommend a separate starting
>>> battery
>>> and use a Link 10 0r Link 20 to monitor. Parallel the 4D's and never
>>> worry
>>> about starting with the 3rd battery never used for house loads.
>>>
>>> Kirk
>>> #124
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com
>>> [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Hare
>>> Sent: 13 January 2010 14:53
>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> Since you are in a warm climate I also think that the interstate truck
>>> batteries are a good option.
>>>
>>> I recommend adding an automotive AGM *starting* battery like an Exide
>>> Orbital or equivalent.  It is totally maint free and saves your 4Ds from
>>> the
>>> slow damage that engine starting currents inflict on deep cycles.  This
>>> isolation also reduces voltage spikes to your electronics while starting
>>> your engine.
>>>
>>> If you're going with a new pair of 4Ds, hardwire them in parallel and
>>> treat
>>> them as one big battery. You'll get noticably more usable house power
>>> from
>>> them, and never have to worry about starting your engine.
>>>
>>> AGMs are only a decent (but expensive) option if you meet several of the
>>> following criteria:
>>>
>>> 1. You have a good charger with an AGM setting preferrably.  I have a
>>> Charles-40 amp.
>>>
>>> 2. You have a high output alternator.
>>>
>>> 3. You spend a decent amount of time off of shore power.  We cruised for
>>> 15
>>> days without shore power and didn't have to conserve elec.
>>> 4. You live in a cold climate where you winterize the boat for more than
>>> 4mos.
>>>
>>> AGMs may hold a decent charge for 6mos, without needing a charge. They
>>> don't
>>> freeze, and accept much higher charging currents than flooded which is a
>>> benefit to those needing to recharge batteries quickly using the engine
>>> while on the hook.
>>>
>>> They don't really offer much in the way of additional life or capacity,
>>> so
>>> flooded batteries are still a good option if you don't have a powerful
>>> alternator.
>>>
>>> AGMs were so expensive I worry about them more than I did the flooded
>>> batteries.  ~ $900 for the pair.  Don't like that part so much.
>>>
>>> -jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Warren Updike" <wupdike at hotmail.com>
>>> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:41:48
>>> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>>
>>> Mike, I replaced with Interstate 3 years ago and am very happy. I would
>>> have
>>> preferred the AGMs but the price didn't work for me. AGMs are, yes, lo/no
>>> maintenance; but, the charge rate and number of charge cycles are better
>>> meaning they will last longer.
>>>
>>> I found that Interstate had at least 2 different 4D batteries. The one I
>>> bought is the "SRM-4D Marine/RV - 30 months, 1314 cold cranking amps.
>>> Larger plates, more capacity the commercial model.  I bought them through
>>> my
>>> marina store for about $170. At the time the SRP was $178.
>>>
>>> I called the techs at Interstate. They were very helpful. They told me
>>> that
>>> the capacity was 195AH.  They also gave the the Pukart (sp?) value to use
>>> with my battery monitor.
>>>
>>> BTW, most battery mfgrs don't quote AH ratings on their batteries. An
>>> estimate can be made by multiplying the Reserve Capacity (RC) by 0.6.
>>>
>>> If I don't hit the lottery in the meantime, I'll likely purchase them
>>> again.
>>>
>>> FYI, Nigel Calder (I think it was,) did a study of the cost per AH of
>>> marine
>>> power.  Exotic systems aside, he concluded that the least cost is with
>>> wet
>>> cells, shore charger, and a gas generator.  Convenience was not a
>>> criteria
>>> for this study, just cost.
>>>
>>> Warren & Pattie Updike
>>> Catalina 320, #62, "Warr De Mar"
>>> Middle River, Chesapeake Bay
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Martin Raphael [mailto:Rhapsody108 at q.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:43 PM
>>> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
>>> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>>
>>> I have had really good luck with Interstate batteries, and their prices
>>> are
>>> much better than WM.  Check them out and see what you think.  They are
>>> the
>>> right size (assuming you have been using 2 4Ds).  An interment search is
>>> a
>>> good idea too, as you may find some cheaper sources...but do check the
>>> dimensions to avoid problems with fit in the boxes.
>>> Martin Raphael
>>> Rhapsody #108 (for 1 more day...just sold the boat!)
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: Mike Paris<mailto:mparis495 at gmail.com>
>>>  To: C320-List at Catalina320.com<mailto:C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:48 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>>
>>>
>>>  I'm going to buy new batteries. Are there any potential problems with me
>>>  just replacing the batteries? Mainly, could I damage the new ones if
>>> there
>>>
>>>  is some unknown problem at the source of my electrical troubles.
>>>
>>>  Secondly, wet cell or AGM? The West Marine price for a wet cell is $292
>>> and
>>>  an AGM is $539. Is the AGM that much better?
>>>
>>>  Finally, should I replace the ProMariner with the Xantrex 20 just on
>>>  principle? It doesn't seem to be giving me problems but many have strong
>>>  feelings against the ProMariner.
>>>
>>>  Thanks,
>>>  Mike
>>>  #734
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Jeff Hare" <catalina at thehares.com<mailto:catalina at thehares.com>>
>>>  To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com<mailto:C320-List at Catalina320.com>>
>>>  Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 5:24 AM
>>>  Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>>
>>>
>>>  > Mike,
>>>  >
>>>  > A couple notes.  When you disconnect the batteries to measure them you
>>> be
>>>  > sure to wait an hour of so to get their true voltage.  The 13.6v was
>>>  > likely still showing the effects of just being on the charger.   More
>>>  > likely, the voltage should be 12.5 or so after standing for a while.
>>>  >
>>>  > I'm not suspecting the charger here as much as just old batteries.
>>> They
>>>
>>>  > show the classic signs of dying batteries.  They charge fine but have
>>> no
>>>
>>>  > CAPACITY.
>>>  >
>>>  > -Jeff
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > -----Original Message-----
>>>  > From: "Allan S. Field"
>>> <allan.field at verizon.net<mailto:allan.field at verizon.net>>
>>>  > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:30:20
>>>  > To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com<mailto:C320-List at Catalina320.com>>
>>>  > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>>  >
>>>  > Warren - it is Mike that I am thinking still has the stock ProMariner.
>>> If
>>>  > so, that probably is the culprit for his problems. - Allan
>>>  >
>>>  > -----Original Message-----
>>>  > From:
>>> c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com<mailto:
>>> c320-list-bounces at lists.catal
>>> ina320.com>
>>>  > [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Warren
>>>  > Updike
>>>  > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:19 PM
>>>  > To: C320-List at Catalina320.com<mailto:C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>>  > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>>  >
>>>  > Allan, I don't have a ProMariner. Mine is a 50A LewMar that was on the
>>>  > boat
>>>  > when I bought it.  According to the manual, it will float the
>>> batteries
>>> at
>>>  > 14.1V, although I don't leave it on when there is no DC load. The
>>> charger
>>>  > relay for the starting battery kicks in at 13.7V.  Apparently, a
>>> constant
>>>  > voltage around 14V will not hurt the batteries.  The previous set of
>>>  > batteries lasted 7 years so I expect my charger works OK. ---Warren
>>>  >
>>>  > -----Original Message-----
>>>  > From: Allan S. Field [mailto:allan.field at verizon.net]
>>>  > Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:50 PM
>>>  > To: C320-List at Catalina320.com<mailto:C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>>  > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>>  >
>>>  > Warren - Does the ProMariner reach and maintain float?  I thought that
>>> was
>>>  > the problem with it - it just kept on cooking and is not a true
>>> 3-stage
>>>  > charger.  But I could be wrong...  Where is Jeff Hare on this?! -
>>> Allan
>>>  >
>>>  > -----Original Message-----
>>>  > From:
>>> c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com<mailto:
>>> c320-list-bounces at lists.catal
>>> ina320.com>
>>>  > [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Warren
>>>  > Updike
>>>  > Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:39 PM
>>>  > To: C320-List at Catalina320.com<mailto:C320-List at Catalina320.com>
>>>  > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>>  >
>>>  > Mike, according to the experts (not me,) the only way to assess the
>>> health
>>>  > of a wet cell deep cycle battery is to perform a load test on it.  All
>>>  > previous advice is useful.
>>>  >
>>>  > Water the batteries, clean all connections, and recharge. Monitor the
>>>  > charging voltage to be sure the charger is working correctly. When the
>>>  > charger enters float stage, disconnect and let the batteries sit for a
>>>  > day.
>>>  > After at least 24 hrs. test the voltage again on each battery. If
>>> still
>>>  > high, they're good.  If dropped by more than a tenth or two of a volt,
>>> you
>>>  > may have a problem. Have a load test done.
>>>  >
>>>  > As Karl suggests, you can test each cell with a hygrometer (compensate
>>> for
>>>  > temp.) to determine if one cell is weaker than others.  I recall that
>>> if
>>>
>>>  > the
>>>  > cell to cell difference is more than .20, the cell is likely weak.
>>>  >
>>>  > Four years is on the near side of lifetime for deep cell batteries
>>>  > constantly charged.  Consider that your charger could be the problem.
>>>  >
>>>  > If the tops of the plates inside the cells have been left high and dry
>>> for
>>>  > any length of time, chances are your battery is done and can't be
>>>  > recovered.
>>>  >
>>>  > Warren & Pattie Updike
>>>  > Catalina 320, #62, "Warr De Mar"
>>>  > Middle River, Chesapeake Bay
>>>  >
>>>  > -----Original Message-----
>>>  > From: bruceheyman at cox.net<mailto:bruceheyman at cox.net>
>>> [mailto:bruceheyman at cox.net]
>>>  > Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 9:20 AM
>>>  > To: Catalina List
>>>  > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>>  >
>>>  > Mike,
>>>  > Also check the connections and the cables.  Several times I've come
>>> across
>>>  > a
>>>  > situation where a dodgey cable end or connection would handle the low
>>>  > current demands of the fridge and GPS but balk at the couple of
>>> hundred
>>>  > amps
>>>  > required by the starter motor.
>>>  > Bruce
>>>  > Somerset 671 SoCal
>>>  > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>>  >
>>>  > -----Original Message-----
>>>  > From: bruceheyman at cox.net<mailto:bruceheyman at cox.net>
>>>  > Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 12:51:37
>>>  > To: Catalina
>>> List<C320-List at Catalina320.com<mailto:C320-List at Catalina320.com>>
>>>  > Subject: Re: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>>  >
>>>  > Mike,
>>>  > Check fluid level and add distilled water as required. Charge over
>>> night
>>>
>>>  > and
>>>  > then check each cell with a hydrometer.
>>>  > Bruce
>>>  > Somerset 671 SoCal
>>>  > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>>  >
>>>  > -----Original Message-----
>>>  > From: "Mike Paris" <mparis495 at gmail.com<mailto:mparis495 at gmail.com>>
>>>  > Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 18:01:57
>>>  > To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com<mailto:C320-List at Catalina320.com>>
>>>  > Subject: [C320-list] Electrical problem
>>>  >
>>>  > Last weekend I went out for a day-sail. I usually put the battery sith
>>> on
>>>  > "both" but I forgot and left it on "2" for the trip. The engine
>>> started
>>>  > normally, I motored for about 30 minutes and then sailed for about 2
>>> 1/2
>>>  > hours. When I went to restart the engine it was dead (no sound when
>>>  > pushing
>>>  > the start button). I changed the battery switch to "both" and the the
>>>  > engine
>>>  > started right up. The electrical draw during the sail was a fully
>>> cooled
>>>  > refrigerator, the chartplotter and ST60 gauges. My boat is always
>>> plugged
>>>  > in
>>>  > to shorepower with charger on when in the slip. I have two wet-cell
>>>  > batteries that I believe are about four years old (I've owned the boat
>>> for
>>>  > 2
>>>  > 1/2 years). I'm not knowledable about electrical systems so I'm
>>> looking
>>>  > for
>>>  > advice as to steps to take to find possible problems when I head down
>>>  > there
>>>  > this weekend.
>>>  >
>>>  > Thanks to all,
>>>  > Mike P
>>>  > #734
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Burti Farmville, NC
>>
>>
>> End of C320-list Digest, Vol 677, Issue 1
>> *****************************************
>>
>
>


-- 
Chris Burti Farmville, NC