[C320-list] Bilge diesel
Dave and Ev
kabout at comcast.net
Wed Apr 29 09:53:18 PDT 2015
First check the five screws on the plate that holds the fuel level sensor. My problem was several loose screws that caused the gasket to weep. While your tank may be old, if this is the only issue, it is a simple fix while you can plan your strategy. By tightening the screws about half a turn I solve my issue to make the season. You can replace the tank at your leisure.
Dave
It Tips #628
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 29, 2015, at 5:08 PM, c320-list-request at lists.catalina320.com wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: rigging (Graeme Clark)
> 2. Bilge Diesel (Amiraults Family)
> 3. Re: Bilge Diesel (Jon Vez)
> 4. Re: Bilge Diesel (Karl Mielenhausen)
> 5. Re: rigging (Michael Ferguson)
> 6. Three blade prop (tharrison at innovations-plus.com)
> 7. Re: Three blade prop (DianeFlr at aol.com)
> 8. Re: Bilge Diesel (Rick Sulewski)
> 9. Re: Bilge Diesel (Millers)
> 10. Re: Looking for a 3 blade prop for Perkins engine
> (aronella at gmail.com)
> 11. Re: rigging (Allan S Field)
> 12. Re: rigging (Michael Ferguson)
> 13. Rigging (Bill Lowe)
> 14. Re: Rigging (Rick Sulewski)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 20:45:32 +0100
> From: Graeme Clark <cg at skyflyer.co.uk>
> To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] rigging
> Message-ID: <DDBA08C0-9C99-46B5-B5B4-50911C466642 at skyflyer.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> I have just finished replacing the standing rigging on my 1996 320, which I bought last year; the previous (original) owner had never replaced it. he claimed never to have been sailing in anything greater than 25knots but I decided not to risk it. I just didnt want to be mid-passage somewhere, the wind freshen up and be always wondering what weakness might lie undiscovered.
>
> It used to be the case that insurance companies required standing rigging replacement evry 5 years, then it became every 10, then every 15 and so on! My company did not insist on it but they made the point that if I had a loss and it was attributed to lack of routine maintenece then there could be an argument about liability!
>
> So - what was the old rigging like - well, from the outside I couldnt see a problem and nor could the riggers but they made the point that in may cases there will be internal corrosion and even siophisticated tests like the eddy current test are no guarantee.
>
> Theres some good info about fatugue failure in rigging here http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Fatigue.aspx
>
> I decided to have the mast un-stepped and strip the old rigging myself, send it to a supplier to match up new, and refit it myself, employing a rigger only for the re-stepping and rig tuning which I wnst confident of doing.
>
> The unexpected plus side of this was that I got to really see how the rig was put together and undersatand how the spreaders are held to the mast, how the wires run through the spreder tips, how they are held in place and so on. With the amst down all this could be done eaisly with two feet on the ground and gave me the oportunity to easily run new wiring, fit new aerial, nav lights and examine the masthead components such as sheaves for repair or replacement if necessary.
>
> And I got to gibee everything a really good clean up!
>
> If you dont replace your rigging then at the very least you need to be happy regulalry going up the mast in a harness or chair to inspect the swaged ends of the riggings for any sign of broken wires.
>
> Finally the original rigging screws (turnbuckles/bottle screws) fitted to early Catalinas - the ones with the slide on stainless steel tubular covers) seem to be universally derided, these days, by any rigger as being the perfect design to retain corrosive seawater and hide what?s going on.
> Hope this helps
>
> Graeme
> #366, ?Jaskar?, Falmouth Cornwall, UK
>
>
>
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 05:51:42 -0700
> From: Michael Ferguson <coralman at bellsouth.net>
> To: 320 <c320-list at catalina320.com>
> Subject: [C320-list] rigging
> Message-ID:
> <1430225502.89251.YahooMailAndroidMobile at web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi all
>
> Just a thought. Has anyone replaced their standing rigging our had any failures. Nauti Clew is 20 yes old and I use her often in 20 plus not winds. I check for stress cracks etc but worry about aging parts. Also the steering cable same age. Thanks
>
> Michael
>
> Nauti Clew 169
>
> Senbut rom Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:56:41 -0400
> From: Amiraults Family <amiraults at sympatico.ca>
> To: <c320-list at lists.catalina320.com>
> Subject: [C320-list] Bilge Diesel
> Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP24A60C0729F60EE14CC6C0D9E80 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> All:
>
>
>
> When removing antifreeze from the bilge on Sunday in preparation for launch
> May 02, I found a little diesel in the aft section of bilge exposed when
> lifting the inspection plate on the floor the main cabin. I cleaned this. I
> was at the boat again today (Tuesday) to do the hull wax and buff to find a
> ? cup more fuel in the same area. Where I can actually trace back the leak,
> it is coming from the starboard side and from under the floor of the head.
> In the aft cabin the leak is further back than the plastic water tank. It is
> coming from the area of the fuel tank, and not the engine.
>
>
>
> I filled the tank on the hard in cold November. It is now +22 C in Ottawa.
> It is possible that there is expansion of the fuel and a resulting leak
> other than in the actual tank wall. Launch cannot be delayed, and I must go
> in with club launch Saturday so I cannot further address this until Monday
> May 04. At that time I want to move quickly. Currently the leak is slow, and
> I have a bilge sock positioned in the way of the flow.
>
>
>
> In the event that it proves to be the tank, if someone reading this has
> already addressed this matter and done a tank replacement, I would
> appreciate insight into the process, tips to make the remove/install
> progress more smoothly, and ?should have dones? that I should be
> considering.
>
>
>
> Source of the replacement tank. A quick look online shows a 19 gallon US
> aluminum from Catalina Direct for 536$, with a 50$ packaging fee and call
> for special shipping charges (all amounts USD). Is there a better source? A
> different tank material? Should I consider options like an inspection plate
> (which deletes the internal tank baffle)?
>
>
>
> Removal of the old tank. How is the tank swap physically done? Can it be
> moved out of the starboard stern locker hatch?
>
>
>
> Install of the new tank. Is there additional securing or isolation that
> should be installed between the new tank and the boat to increase the time
> to next failure?
>
>
>
> Clean-up. There are products which can be used to clean up the spill. Is
> there a superior product? There are areas (such as under the head floor)
> where I have no access. Is there a technique which can be used to clean
> these difficult to access areas? Will I need to be looking at some form of
> sealing paint to eliminate diesel odor?
>
>
>
> Might as wells. With the fuel tank removed (as well as all of the locker
> detritus displaced to allow access) is there some other unrelated
> maintenance that I should be considering given that the area can now be
> accessed for the first time since new?
>
>
>
> I am also curious. My previous boat experienced failure of its aluminum fuel
> tank after 28 years. Bear originally went into service in 2000. Is 15 years
> unusual for a tank failure?
>
>
>
> Regards;
>
>
>
> Brian Amirault
>
> 797 Waltzing Bear, too
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:34:20 -0400
> From: Jon Vez <Jonvez at comcast.net>
> To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bilge Diesel
> Message-ID: <E0B63014-B071-45C4-95EA-EFEAE6DC105D at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Brian,
> I would say with some certainty that your tank is leaking given where you're finding the fuel, the age of the tank and the fact that it continues to leak. Mine started leaking at 12 years. Jeff Hare just commissioned a larger tank that will fit a 320 and you may want to speak with him about that option. As to some of your questions:
> --it's a straightforward replacement. The tank will only come out from the aft berth access hatch with the wood trim removed, not the lazarette.
> --you will not have to delay your launch as the leak is very slow and you will be able to do this anywhere. The biggest issue will be removing the fuel. I used a pump attached to a drill and emptied into jerry cans through the sender hole.
> --According to Nigel Calder, an aluminum tank can be expected to last 8-12 years. Of course they can go much longer. The new tanks have much thicker walls .90 vs .125, however your leak is most likely at a seam.
> Once the tank is removed, getting the fuel cleaned up is pretty easy as long as you keep it contained in the aft berth area with absorbing socks. Once the tank is removed you can clean up the area pretty easily with a detergent like simple green and Pureayre. If the area is dirty, you can consider re painting with an epoxy based paint like bilge paint. However I did not find this necessary.
>
> I know several others have done this as well, so I'm sure you will get further advice.
> I know when I went through this, I denied it was the tank in my own mind and that was a mistake as all it did was create more fuel to clean up...kind of like going to the dentist at first sign of a toothache....
>
> Good luck....
>
> Jon
> formerly #582
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 28, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Amiraults Family <amiraults at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> All:
>>
>>
>>
>> When removing antifreeze from the bilge on Sunday in preparation for launch
>> May 02, I found a little diesel in the aft section of bilge exposed when
>> lifting the inspection plate on the floor the main cabin. I cleaned this. I
>> was at the boat again today (Tuesday) to do the hull wax and buff to find a
>> ? cup more fuel in the same area. Where I can actually trace back the leak,
>> it is coming from the starboard side and from under the floor of the head.
>> In the aft cabin the leak is further back than the plastic water tank. It is
>> coming from the area of the fuel tank, and not the engine.
>>
>>
>>
>> I filled the tank on the hard in cold November. It is now +22 C in Ottawa.
>> It is possible that there is expansion of the fuel and a resulting leak
>> other than in the actual tank wall. Launch cannot be delayed, and I must go
>> in with club launch Saturday so I cannot further address this until Monday
>> May 04. At that time I want to move quickly. Currently the leak is slow, and
>> I have a bilge sock positioned in the way of the flow.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the event that it proves to be the tank, if someone reading this has
>> already addressed this matter and done a tank replacement, I would
>> appreciate insight into the process, tips to make the remove/install
>> progress more smoothly, and ?should have dones? that I should be
>> considering.
>>
>>
>>
>> Source of the replacement tank. A quick look online shows a 19 gallon US
>> aluminum from Catalina Direct for 536$, with a 50$ packaging fee and call
>> for special shipping charges (all amounts USD). Is there a better source? A
>> different tank material? Should I consider options like an inspection plate
>> (which deletes the internal tank baffle)?
>>
>>
>>
>> Removal of the old tank. How is the tank swap physically done? Can it be
>> moved out of the starboard stern locker hatch?
>>
>>
>>
>> Install of the new tank. Is there additional securing or isolation that
>> should be installed between the new tank and the boat to increase the time
>> to next failure?
>>
>>
>>
>> Clean-up. There are products which can be used to clean up the spill. Is
>> there a superior product? There are areas (such as under the head floor)
>> where I have no access. Is there a technique which can be used to clean
>> these difficult to access areas? Will I need to be looking at some form of
>> sealing paint to eliminate diesel odor?
>>
>>
>>
>> Might as wells. With the fuel tank removed (as well as all of the locker
>> detritus displaced to allow access) is there some other unrelated
>> maintenance that I should be considering given that the area can now be
>> accessed for the first time since new?
>>
>>
>>
>> I am also curious. My previous boat experienced failure of its aluminum fuel
>> tank after 28 years. Bear originally went into service in 2000. Is 15 years
>> unusual for a tank failure?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards;
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian Amirault
>>
>> 797 Waltzing Bear, too
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 19:28:06 -0400
> From: Karl Mielenhausen <kmielen at gmail.com>
> To: C320IA Discussion List <C320-List at catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bilge Diesel
> Message-ID:
> <CAFoR0_M2HhnebJmFiw6HVR3JNJACVWK9KoRBPfkOd4KqSTPfHA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I have had good experience using Calgon liquid water softener to clean up
> diesel residue. It looks something like this...
> http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/hpc/detail-page/c26-B0056X2QC6-1-l.jpg
>
> I guess I ought to pay attention to the good work Jeff Hare has done in
> designing a new fuel tank. I'm at 15 years on the 8-12 year life! Lets hope
> they were welding extra good seams that day!
>
> Karl
>
> Karl
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Amiraults Family <amiraults at sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> All:
>>
>>
>>
>> When removing antifreeze from the bilge on Sunday in preparation for launch
>> May 02, I found a little diesel in the aft section of bilge exposed when
>> lifting the inspection plate on the floor the main cabin. I cleaned this. I
>> was at the boat again today (Tuesday) to do the hull wax and buff to find a
>> 1/2 cup more fuel in the same area. Where I can actually trace back the leak,
>> it is coming from the starboard side and from under the floor of the head.
>> In the aft cabin the leak is further back than the plastic water tank. It
>> is
>> coming from the area of the fuel tank, and not the engine.
>>
>>
>>
>> I filled the tank on the hard in cold November. It is now +22 C in Ottawa.
>> It is possible that there is expansion of the fuel and a resulting leak
>> other than in the actual tank wall. Launch cannot be delayed, and I must go
>> in with club launch Saturday so I cannot further address this until Monday
>> May 04. At that time I want to move quickly. Currently the leak is slow,
>> and
>> I have a bilge sock positioned in the way of the flow.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the event that it proves to be the tank, if someone reading this has
>> already addressed this matter and done a tank replacement, I would
>> appreciate insight into the process, tips to make the remove/install
>> progress more smoothly, and 'should have dones' that I should be
>> considering.
>>
>>
>>
>> Source of the replacement tank. A quick look online shows a 19 gallon US
>> aluminum from Catalina Direct for 536$, with a 50$ packaging fee and call
>> for special shipping charges (all amounts USD). Is there a better source? A
>> different tank material? Should I consider options like an inspection plate
>> (which deletes the internal tank baffle)?
>>
>>
>>
>> Removal of the old tank. How is the tank swap physically done? Can it be
>> moved out of the starboard stern locker hatch?
>>
>>
>>
>> Install of the new tank. Is there additional securing or isolation that
>> should be installed between the new tank and the boat to increase the time
>> to next failure?
>>
>>
>>
>> Clean-up. There are products which can be used to clean up the spill. Is
>> there a superior product? There are areas (such as under the head floor)
>> where I have no access. Is there a technique which can be used to clean
>> these difficult to access areas? Will I need to be looking at some form of
>> sealing paint to eliminate diesel odor?
>>
>>
>>
>> Might as wells. With the fuel tank removed (as well as all of the locker
>> detritus displaced to allow access) is there some other unrelated
>> maintenance that I should be considering given that the area can now be
>> accessed for the first time since new?
>>
>>
>>
>> I am also curious. My previous boat experienced failure of its aluminum
>> fuel
>> tank after 28 years. Bear originally went into service in 2000. Is 15 years
>> unusual for a tank failure?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards;
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian Amirault
>>
>> 797 Waltzing Bear, too
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 16:32:12 -0700
> From: Michael Ferguson <coralman at bellsouth.net>
> To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] rigging
> Message-ID:
> <1430263932.47101.YahooMailAndroidMobile at web181206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Thanks Graeme for all the good advise.?
>
> Michael
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
> From:"Graeme Clark" <cg at skyflyer.co.uk>
> Date:Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 3:45 PM
> Subject:Re: [C320-list] rigging
>
> I have just finished replacing the standing rigging on my 1996 320, which I bought last year; the previous (original) owner had never replaced it. he claimed never to have been sailing in anything greater than 25knots but I decided not to risk it. I just didnt? want to be mid-passage somewhere, the wind freshen up and be always wondering what weakness might lie undiscovered.
>
> It used to be the case that insurance companies required standing rigging replacement evry 5 years, then it became every 10, then every 15 and so on! My company did not insist on it but they made the point that if I had a loss and it was attributed to lack of routine maintenece then there could be an argument about liability!
>
> So - what was the old rigging like - well, from the outside I couldnt see a problem and nor could the riggers but they made the point that in may cases there will be internal corrosion and even siophisticated tests like the eddy current test are no guarantee.
>
> Theres some good info about fatugue failure in rigging here http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Fatigue.aspx
>
> I decided to have the mast un-stepped and strip the old rigging myself, send it to a supplier to match up new, and refit it myself, employing a rigger only for the re-stepping and rig tuning which I wnst confident of doing.
>
> The unexpected plus side of this was that I got to really see how the rig was put together and undersatand how the spreaders are held to the mast, how the wires run through the spreder tips, how they are held in place and so on. With the amst down all this could be done eaisly with two feet on the ground and gave me the oportunity to easily run new wiring, fit new aerial, nav lights and examine the masthead components such as sheaves for repair or replacement if necessary.
>
> And I got to gibee everything a really good clean up!
>
> If you dont replace your rigging then at the very least you need to be happy regulalry going up the mast in a harness or chair to inspect the swaged ends of the riggings for any sign of broken wires.
>
> Finally the original rigging screws (turnbuckles/bottle screws) fitted to early Catalinas - the ones with the slide on stainless steel tubular covers) seem to be universally derided, these days, by any rigger as being the perfect design to retain corrosive seawater and hide what?s going on.
> Hope this helps
>
> Graeme
> #366, ?Jaskar?, Falmouth Cornwall, UK
>
>
>
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 05:51:42 -0700
> From: Michael Ferguson <coralman at bellsouth.net>
> To: 320 <c320-list at catalina320.com>
> Subject: [C320-list] rigging
> Message-ID:
> ??? <1430225502.89251.YahooMailAndroidMobile at web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi all
>
> Just a thought. Has anyone replaced their standing rigging our had any failures. Nauti Clew is 20 yes old and I use her often in 20 plus not winds. I check for stress cracks etc but worry about aging parts. Also the steering cable same age. Thanks
>
> Michael
>
> Nauti Clew 169
>
> Senbut rom Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 20:14:18 -0400
> From: "tharrison at innovations-plus.com"
> <tharrison at innovations-plus.com>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: [C320-list] Three blade prop
> Message-ID:
> <92A7B025-0A64-43AD-9D37-A3AAFA4D9AAA at innovations-plus.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I am about to start the cutlass bearing project.
>
> As I am reviewing to process I am wondering about the prop.
>
> I think I was standing on the port side looking at the prop and I read 15 RH 10 when I removed it. Is my mind playing tricks on me because it knows - nervous Nelly is working again on his boat!!!
>
> Can you put the prop on backwards?
>
> How do you know it is on correctly?
>
> Ted hull 424
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 20:26:05 -0400
> From: DianeFlr at aol.com
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Three blade prop
> Message-ID: <135824.660614be.42717f1d at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> no, the shaft is taperedl, so it only fits one way.
>
>
> In a message dated 4/28/2015 8:14:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> tharrison at innovations-plus.com writes:
>
> I am about to start the cutlass bearing project.
>
> As I am reviewing to process I am wondering about the prop.
>
> I think I was standing on the port side looking at the prop and I read 15
> RH 10 when I removed it. Is my mind playing tricks on me because it knows -
> nervous Nelly is working again on his boat!!!
>
> Can you put the prop on backwards?
>
> How do you know it is on correctly?
>
> Ted hull 424
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone=
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 01:05:37 -0400
> From: "Rick Sulewski" <rsulewski at bex.net>
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bilge Diesel
> Message-ID: <002101d0823a$21f1c070$65d54150$@bex.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Brian,
> I concur with Jon's assessment about the fuel tank replacement process. However, you may not have a fuel tank leak due to perforation of a seam or a tank wall if you overfilled the tank. You could now be seeing fuel seepage from either the tank fittings or most likely the fuel sender or sender gasket. I had the same issue a year ago and found that the sender gasket was leaking after having topped off the tank the previous fall while the boat was stored on its cradle with the bow higher than the stern. I experienced fuel seeping from the sender gasket when the boat was launched and sitting level at the dock.
>
> By pulling off the starboard aft corner storage shelf above the tank, you will be able to see if the fuel is leaking from the sender or from any fittings on the top of the tank (due to topping off the fuel tank last fall). If you do not find any fuel on top of the tank, then you probably have fuel seeping from the forward port corner of the tank. If you are lucky, you just have a sender gasket leaking and you may be able to get by for this season by applying some liquid thread sealer to the top side leak. You will first need to remove two gallons of fuel to stop the seepage if it is coming from your sender area or a fuel fitting. I removed the 90 degree fitting used for the return fuel line barb (that fitting is on aft end, the port side of the tank, adjacent to the larger fuel filler hose and right next to the overflow/air hose). I used a topsider oil removal pump and sent a narrow plastic tube down into tank and pumped out a couple of gallons. Do not attempt to remove f
> uel by removing the sender or fuel feed line fitting located at the forward end of the tank because with an overfilled tank, the fuel will just gush until it either stops or you can stop that sudden and massive loss of fuel.....imagine lots more fuel seeping under the hull liner! Next, clean the sender and gasket and tank area to remove the fuel residue on the top of the tank with a grease cutting cleaner like "409" and then dry off that area. Last step, apply some liquid thread sealer "goop" that is available at NAPA or any other auto supply store for a something like $4. The thread sealer did not dissolve over the entire season. I did tweak the sender screws before applying the sealant to ensure that the gasket was tight, but I am convinced that applying the liquid thread sealer to encapsulating the sender screws and gasket is what stopped the leak was taking place ( I had installed new sender the previous season but did not apply any thread sealer.) Using two coats of
> sealer with several hours drying time between coats, did the trick for me. I topped off the tank several times without another leak last season.
>
> I cleaned up the fuel seepage that found its way under the bilge liner by using lots of Bounty towels to first wipe up fuel followed by leaving ample amounts of towels to wick-up the fuel. Next, I used a generous dose of "Dawn lemon" liquid dishwashing soap with very little water followed by two very, very strong concentration and large rinses of "Simple Green" (large concentration size available at SAMs Club). I poured the Simple Green in and around and under the tank area so that it drained to the very lowest areas where the fuel traveled and then removed that residue with the paper towels where possible. The Dawn soap loosened up the fuel residue and the Simple Green removed the Dawn & fuel mix, as well as removing the fuel smell. I could access that area where the forward most corner of the aft water tank rests by wicking paper towels in that area to first remove the fuel and then the Dawn soap residue and Simple Green rinses. Also, on my hull, I can access the area be
> low the cabin sole where an inspection port provides access the hull below the bilge liner. I could get an arm sweep under the liner to wipe up lots of fuel and then the soap residue and rinse. After the strong Simple Green rinses and removal, it took about a two weeks for the Simple Green to completely dry up and that soap odor to cease.
>
> After the fuel clean-up drill last year, and with a 20 year old 320 (hull #277), I decided to avoid another fuel leak cleanup episode by making plans to just replace the aging tank. Upon haul out last fall I ordered a new fuel tank from Catalina Direct ( I found that for me, CD had the best available price after considering shipping). I removed the old tank last week and am going to install the new tank tomorrow. I will also paint on a coat or two of liquid thread sealer "goop" over the new fitting threads, over the fuel sender screws and gasket edge, and, also do two coat over the inspection port bolts and gasket edges, given what I learned over the past year.
>
> With an aging aluminum tank, it is not a matter of "if" the tank could ever leak, but really a matter of being prepared "when" the tank is going to leak.... or better yet, anticipate a planned replacement before the tank leaks. Preventing a fuel seepage problem is much preferred when the day is out there for an aluminum tank to leak based on my extensive research last fall of several popular owner sailing blogs regarding aluminum tank leakage problems. I learned that most reported aluminum tanks leaks took place between 15 & 25 years.....some sooner and some later, depending on how successful owners were about removing the water or condensate from their fuel to reduce the nasty goo from forming in the lowest corner of the tank that produces a chemical interaction that perforates an aluminum tank (on a 320 it is going to be the forward most port corner). Hence, I ordered an inspection port on the new tank to provide easy access to remove the lowest lying quart or two of fuel
> every few years, or if necessary, to remove any nasty goo from the forward port corner.
> Hope you found this lengthy reply helpful. Feel free to contact me for more info "off list" at my email address.
> Rick; My-Ria 95 320 hull #277
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf Of Jon Vez
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 5:34 PM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bilge Diesel
>
> Brian,
> I would say with some certainty that your tank is leaking given where you're finding the fuel, the age of the tank and the fact that it continues to leak. Mine started leaking at 12 years. Jeff Hare just commissioned a larger tank that will fit a 320 and you may want to speak with him about that option. As to some of your questions:
> --it's a straightforward replacement. The tank will only come out from the aft berth access hatch with the wood trim removed, not the lazarette.
> --you will not have to delay your launch as the leak is very slow and you will be able to do this anywhere. The biggest issue will be removing the fuel. I used a pump attached to a drill and emptied into jerry cans through the sender hole.
> --According to Nigel Calder, an aluminum tank can be expected to last 8-12 years. Of course they can go much longer. The new tanks have much thicker walls .90 vs .125, however your leak is most likely at a seam.
> Once the tank is removed, getting the fuel cleaned up is pretty easy as long as you keep it contained in the aft berth area with absorbing socks. Once the tank is removed you can clean up the area pretty easily with a detergent like simple green and Pureayre. If the area is dirty, you can consider re painting with an epoxy based paint like bilge paint. However I did not find this necessary.
>
> I know several others have done this as well, so I'm sure you will get further advice.
> I know when I went through this, I denied it was the tank in my own mind and that was a mistake as all it did was create more fuel to clean up...kind of like going to the dentist at first sign of a toothache....
>
> Good luck....
>
> Jon
> formerly #582
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 28, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Amiraults Family <amiraults at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> All:
>>
>>
>>
>> When removing antifreeze from the bilge on Sunday in preparation for
>> launch May 02, I found a little diesel in the aft section of bilge
>> exposed when lifting the inspection plate on the floor the main cabin.
>> I cleaned this. I was at the boat again today (Tuesday) to do the hull
>> wax and buff to find a ? cup more fuel in the same area. Where I can
>> actually trace back the leak, it is coming from the starboard side and from under the floor of the head.
>> In the aft cabin the leak is further back than the plastic water tank.
>> It is coming from the area of the fuel tank, and not the engine.
>>
>>
>>
>> I filled the tank on the hard in cold November. It is now +22 C in Ottawa.
>> It is possible that there is expansion of the fuel and a resulting
>> leak other than in the actual tank wall. Launch cannot be delayed, and
>> I must go in with club launch Saturday so I cannot further address
>> this until Monday May 04. At that time I want to move quickly.
>> Currently the leak is slow, and I have a bilge sock positioned in the way of the flow.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the event that it proves to be the tank, if someone reading this
>> has already addressed this matter and done a tank replacement, I would
>> appreciate insight into the process, tips to make the remove/install
>> progress more smoothly, and ?should have dones? that I should be
>> considering.
>>
>>
>>
>> Source of the replacement tank. A quick look online shows a 19 gallon
>> US aluminum from Catalina Direct for 536$, with a 50$ packaging fee
>> and call for special shipping charges (all amounts USD). Is there a
>> better source? A different tank material? Should I consider options
>> like an inspection plate (which deletes the internal tank baffle)?
>>
>>
>>
>> Removal of the old tank. How is the tank swap physically done? Can it
>> be moved out of the starboard stern locker hatch?
>>
>>
>>
>> Install of the new tank. Is there additional securing or isolation
>> that should be installed between the new tank and the boat to increase
>> the time to next failure?
>>
>>
>>
>> Clean-up. There are products which can be used to clean up the spill.
>> Is there a superior product? There are areas (such as under the head
>> floor) where I have no access. Is there a technique which can be used
>> to clean these difficult to access areas? Will I need to be looking at
>> some form of sealing paint to eliminate diesel odor?
>>
>>
>>
>> Might as wells. With the fuel tank removed (as well as all of the
>> locker detritus displaced to allow access) is there some other
>> unrelated maintenance that I should be considering given that the area
>> can now be accessed for the first time since new?
>>
>>
>>
>> I am also curious. My previous boat experienced failure of its
>> aluminum fuel tank after 28 years. Bear originally went into service
>> in 2000. Is 15 years unusual for a tank failure?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards;
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian Amirault
>>
>> 797 Waltzing Bear, too
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 05:44:54 -0400
> From: Millers <millers1 at aol.com>
> To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Bilge Diesel
> Message-ID: <CA597DDC-2B1C-4CBF-A932-29337F68F029 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Brian,
> I ordered the C320 tank directly from Ezell; $ 429 ; .125 wall ; sending unit and. Shut offs installed; 2 weeks to build ; etc... I believe they supply C-Direct.
> More info if you need it, I can locate a phone # if needed.
> Art #680
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 28, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Amiraults Family <amiraults at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> All:
>>
>>
>>
>> When removing antifreeze from the bilge on Sunday in preparation for launch
>> May 02, I found a little diesel in the aft section of bilge exposed when
>> lifting the inspection plate on the floor the main cabin. I cleaned this. I
>> was at the boat again today (Tuesday) to do the hull wax and buff to find a
>> ? cup more fuel in the same area. Where I can actually trace back the leak,
>> it is coming from the starboard side and from under the floor of the head.
>> In the aft cabin the leak is further back than the plastic water tank. It is
>> coming from the area of the fuel tank, and not the engine.
>>
>>
>>
>> I filled the tank on the hard in cold November. It is now +22 C in Ottawa.
>> It is possible that there is expansion of the fuel and a resulting leak
>> other than in the actual tank wall. Launch cannot be delayed, and I must go
>> in with club launch Saturday so I cannot further address this until Monday
>> May 04. At that time I want to move quickly. Currently the leak is slow, and
>> I have a bilge sock positioned in the way of the flow.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the event that it proves to be the tank, if someone reading this has
>> already addressed this matter and done a tank replacement, I would
>> appreciate insight into the process, tips to make the remove/install
>> progress more smoothly, and ?should have dones? that I should be
>> considering.
>>
>>
>>
>> Source of the replacement tank. A quick look online shows a 19 gallon US
>> aluminum from Catalina Direct for 536$, with a 50$ packaging fee and call
>> for special shipping charges (all amounts USD). Is there a better source? A
>> different tank material? Should I consider options like an inspection plate
>> (which deletes the internal tank baffle)?
>>
>>
>>
>> Removal of the old tank. How is the tank swap physically done? Can it be
>> moved out of the starboard stern locker hatch?
>>
>>
>>
>> Install of the new tank. Is there additional securing or isolation that
>> should be installed between the new tank and the boat to increase the time
>> to next failure?
>>
>>
>>
>> Clean-up. There are products which can be used to clean up the spill. Is
>> there a superior product? There are areas (such as under the head floor)
>> where I have no access. Is there a technique which can be used to clean
>> these difficult to access areas? Will I need to be looking at some form of
>> sealing paint to eliminate diesel odor?
>>
>>
>>
>> Might as wells. With the fuel tank removed (as well as all of the locker
>> detritus displaced to allow access) is there some other unrelated
>> maintenance that I should be considering given that the area can now be
>> accessed for the first time since new?
>>
>>
>>
>> I am also curious. My previous boat experienced failure of its aluminum fuel
>> tank after 28 years. Bear originally went into service in 2000. Is 15 years
>> unusual for a tank failure?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards;
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian Amirault
>>
>> 797 Waltzing Bear, too
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 07:57:56 -0400
> From: aronella at gmail.com
> To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Looking for a 3 blade prop for Perkins engine
> Message-ID: <36FD89A9-33BA-4B95-AAE1-47CA152F9CA4 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi Jeff,
> I have such a prop, in great shape. It came off my 1995 C320, when I replaced it with a flexofold. I will sell it for $200, plus shipping. I live in Nyack, ny
> Regards,
> Louis Spitz
> 914 329-0337
>
>> On Apr 28, 2015, at 2:52 PM, JeffWillis111 at aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Hello All.
>>
>> I have hull 174 with a Perkins/Hurth transmission and want to re install a
>> 3 blade prop that was original equipment. It should be 15 x 9 according to
>> Kent at the Catalina Factory.
>>
>> If you have one laying around and want to sale it let me know.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jeff
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 09:07:42 -0400
> From: "Allan S Field" <allan.field at verizon.net>
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] rigging
> Message-ID: <003301d0827d$7a561890$6f0249b0$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Following are my notes re: rigging from the factory tour we did a few years
> ago with Gerry Douglas:
>
> There was much discussion regarding the rigging. Most standing rigging
> failures occur about one-half inch below the swage. In southern CA, Mr.
> Douglas recommends replacing the standing rigging every 8 years. However,
> washing the salt off after every sail will increase the life expectancy. By
> contrast, in the mid-west on fresh water lakes, rigging will last 20-30
> years. Catalina expects to do away with the lifeline cover in the next few
> years.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf
> Of Graeme Clark
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 3:46 PM
> To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] rigging
>
> I have just finished replacing the standing rigging on my 1996 320, which I
> bought last year; the previous (original) owner had never replaced it. he
> claimed never to have been sailing in anything greater than 25knots but I
> decided not to risk it. I just didnt want to be mid-passage somewhere, the
> wind freshen up and be always wondering what weakness might lie
> undiscovered.
>
> It used to be the case that insurance companies required standing rigging
> replacement evry 5 years, then it became every 10, then every 15 and so on!
> My company did not insist on it but they made the point that if I had a loss
> and it was attributed to lack of routine maintenece then there could be an
> argument about liability!
>
> So - what was the old rigging like - well, from the outside I couldnt see a
> problem and nor could the riggers but they made the point that in may cases
> there will be internal corrosion and even siophisticated tests like the eddy
> current test are no guarantee.
>
> Theres some good info about fatugue failure in rigging here
> http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Fatigue.aspx
>
> I decided to have the mast un-stepped and strip the old rigging myself, send
> it to a supplier to match up new, and refit it myself, employing a rigger
> only for the re-stepping and rig tuning which I wnst confident of doing.
>
> The unexpected plus side of this was that I got to really see how the rig
> was put together and undersatand how the spreaders are held to the mast, how
> the wires run through the spreder tips, how they are held in place and so
> on. With the amst down all this could be done eaisly with two feet on the
> ground and gave me the oportunity to easily run new wiring, fit new aerial,
> nav lights and examine the masthead components such as sheaves for repair or
> replacement if necessary.
>
> And I got to gibee everything a really good clean up!
>
> If you dont replace your rigging then at the very least you need to be happy
> regulalry going up the mast in a harness or chair to inspect the swaged ends
> of the riggings for any sign of broken wires.
>
> Finally the original rigging screws (turnbuckles/bottle screws) fitted to
> early Catalinas - the ones with the slide on stainless steel tubular covers)
> seem to be universally derided, these days, by any rigger as being the
> perfect design to retain corrosive seawater and hide what's going on.
> Hope this helps
>
> Graeme
> #366, 'Jaskar', Falmouth Cornwall, UK
>
>
>
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 05:51:42 -0700
> From: Michael Ferguson <coralman at bellsouth.net>
> To: 320 <c320-list at catalina320.com>
> Subject: [C320-list] rigging
> Message-ID:
>
> <1430225502.89251.YahooMailAndroidMobile at web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi all
>
> Just a thought. Has anyone replaced their standing rigging our had any
> failures. Nauti Clew is 20 yes old and I use her often in 20 plus not winds.
> I check for stress cracks etc but worry about aging parts. Also the steering
> cable same age. Thanks
>
> Michael
>
> Nauti Clew 169
>
> Senbut rom Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 06:16:58 -0700
> From: Michael Ferguson <coralman at bellsouth.net>
> To: "C320-List at Catalina320.com" <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] rigging
> Message-ID:
> <1430313418.9190.YahooMailAndroidMobile at web181203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Thanks Allen
>
> Guess I need to get busy before a failure happens. What about steering was anything mentioned.
>
> Michael
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
> From:"Allan S Field" <allan.field at verizon.net>
> Date:Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:08 AM
> Subject:Re: [C320-list] rigging
>
> Following are my notes re: rigging from the factory tour we did a few years
> ago with Gerry Douglas:
>
> There was much discussion regarding the rigging.? Most standing rigging
> failures occur about one-half inch below the swage.? In southern CA, Mr.
> Douglas recommends replacing the standing rigging every 8 years.? However,
> washing the salt off after every sail will increase the life expectancy.? By
> contrast, in the mid-west on fresh water lakes, rigging will last 20-30
> years.? Catalina expects to do away with the lifeline cover in the next few
> years.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf
> Of Graeme Clark
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 3:46 PM
> To: c320-list at lists.catalina320.com
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] rigging
>
> I have just finished replacing the standing rigging on my 1996 320, which I
> bought last year; the previous (original) owner had never replaced it. he
> claimed never to have been sailing in anything greater than 25knots but I
> decided not to risk it. I just didnt? want to be mid-passage somewhere, the
> wind freshen up and be always wondering what weakness might lie
> undiscovered.
>
> It used to be the case that insurance companies required standing rigging
> replacement evry 5 years, then it became every 10, then every 15 and so on!
> My company did not insist on it but they made the point that if I had a loss
> and it was attributed to lack of routine maintenece then there could be an
> argument about liability!
>
> So - what was the old rigging like - well, from the outside I couldnt see a
> problem and nor could the riggers but they made the point that in may cases
> there will be internal corrosion and even siophisticated tests like the eddy
> current test are no guarantee.
>
> Theres some good info about fatugue failure in rigging here
> http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Fatigue.aspx
>
> I decided to have the mast un-stepped and strip the old rigging myself, send
> it to a supplier to match up new, and refit it myself, employing a rigger
> only for the re-stepping and rig tuning which I wnst confident of doing.
>
> The unexpected plus side of this was that I got to really see how the rig
> was put together and undersatand how the spreaders are held to the mast, how
> the wires run through the spreder tips, how they are held in place and so
> on. With the amst down all this could be done eaisly with two feet on the
> ground and gave me the oportunity to easily run new wiring, fit new aerial,
> nav lights and examine the masthead components such as sheaves for repair or
> replacement if necessary.
>
> And I got to gibee everything a really good clean up!
>
> If you dont replace your rigging then at the very least you need to be happy
> regulalry going up the mast in a harness or chair to inspect the swaged ends
> of the riggings for any sign of broken wires.
>
> Finally the original rigging screws (turnbuckles/bottle screws) fitted to
> early Catalinas - the ones with the slide on stainless steel tubular covers)
> seem to be universally derided, these days, by any rigger as being the
> perfect design to retain corrosive seawater and hide what's going on.
> Hope this helps
>
> Graeme
> #366, 'Jaskar', Falmouth Cornwall, UK
>
>
>
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 05:51:42 -0700
> From: Michael Ferguson <coralman at bellsouth.net>
> To: 320 <c320-list at catalina320.com>
> Subject: [C320-list] rigging
> Message-ID:
> ???
> <1430225502.89251.YahooMailAndroidMobile at web181201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi all
>
> Just a thought. Has anyone replaced their standing rigging our had any
> failures. Nauti Clew is 20 yes old and I use her often in 20 plus not winds.
> I check for stress cracks etc but worry about aging parts. Also the steering
> cable same age. Thanks
>
> Michael
>
> Nauti Clew 169
>
> Senbut rom Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 09:54:05 -0400
> From: Bill Lowe <wflowe3 at aim.com>
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: [C320-list] Rigging
> Message-ID: <8D2509B17439171-1208-74792 at webmail-vm090.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> I didn't read all the rigging responses but did anyone discuss cost of replacing standing rigging?
> ?
> Bill
> #1146
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:07:40 -0400
> From: "Rick Sulewski" <rsulewski at bex.net>
> To: <C320-List at Catalina320.com>
> Subject: Re: [C320-list] Rigging
> Message-ID: <000901d0828e$3d0355a0$b70a00e0$@bex.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Bill,
> About 9 years ago I replaced the standing rigging and beefed up the aft
> split backstay wires and turnbuckles because my rigger witnessed several 20+
> year old backstays failing out here in the Great Lakes region in the western
> basin of Lake Erie. The total cost was just over 3K excluding mast up & down
> costs from the yard because I had the rigging work done over the winter and
> installed before launch. The rigger did all of the work. He reused all of
> the factory turnbuckles but replaced the smaller backstay turnbuckles when
> he upgraded the split backstay wires. As it turned out, I kept the 12 year
> old rigging and intend to reuse it when I take down the mast next year. Less
> frequent mast removals over the years paid for the new rigging after 10
> years with periodic inspections every few years. Freshwater rigging will
> last well over 20 years if cared for properly/periodically inspected.
> Avoiding annual mast removals actually prevents damage to the rigging caused
> by a rushed or inexperienced yard crew. The only regret I have is that I
> allowed the rigger to cut the old headstay off because he wanted to avoid
> breaking down the roller furler foil and then having to screw it all back
> together,. which he found troublesome from past experiences, He wanted to
> avoid having to drill out the fasteners connecting the foil sections.
> Instead he ran the new wire through the length of the assembled foil and
> then swaged the headstay fittings in the field using a hydraulic tool he
> could place in the bed of his truck.
> Rick 95 320 hull #277
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C320-list [mailto:c320-list-bounces at lists.catalina320.com] On Behalf
> Of Bill Lowe
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 9:54 AM
> To: C320-List at Catalina320.com
> Subject: [C320-list] Rigging
>
>
> I didn't read all the rigging responses but did anyone discuss cost of
> replacing standing rigging?
> ?
> Bill
> #1146
>
>
>
>
> End of C320-list Digest, Vol 2317, Issue 1
> ******************************************
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